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Why are lithium prices collapsing?

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Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#501
post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the commodities market can't set prices through discovery, then the government has to by fiat. Neither are great, but one is definitely preferred.

When speculators were allowed into the oil markets rather than actual buyers, the price jumped to like $120 barrel in like 2007. They had to stop it because hedge funds could just drive the price up indefinitely. See Bitcoin.

Speculation didn't suddenly exist in 2007. I do recall several regulations being changed at that time which _relaxed rules_ around the market. Is it possible that these regulations had more to do with the outcome than mere "speculation" in and of itself?

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#502
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only works if you have some way to justify it to begin with and is rather transphobic to make other people the sole arbiters of one's identity.

Extreme wealth concentration (the original claim) seems pretty easy to prove in the cases originally mentioned by another poster.

I mean, sure, that's what happens literally any time you set up a super-powerful government, necessarily including any government powerful enough to redistribute all of a society's resources. See also: company towns, Pol Pot, the Kims, Mao, or what was happening in that rebellious colony called the USA before the citizens stopped it.

But claiming it fits a bespoke definition of "capitalism" seemingly invented for this particular discussion, despite that being against literally everything they professed, seems a bit much.

They didn't end up with extreme wealth concentration by letting people freely exchange goods and services. That usually happens when people take control of who is able to exchange goods, whether via monopolies or government control.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I was suggesting anywhere that we shouldn’t pursue incremental change. Moreso we should pursue incremental change that the public can get behind (private jet emissions charges and such) before pursuing incremental change that the public is hesitant to make when people suggesting the change are the biggest polluters comparatively. Honestly just think about it. You really think it’s fruitful to try to star…

Sorry i guess i misunderstood. Okay the incrementalness is not the thing. The thing is more, the injustice, the unevenness so to say. Well, I think we should not try to solve the injustice problem and the environmental problem with the same measures. For every rule, there will be people that break it, does that mean nobody should follow that rule? Also, for every form or quantity of pollution, there are heavier forms…

I get it.

But what I’m saying is that when you walk up to someone and say “sorry turn off that gas stove” and then they go and read an article like this [1] you will not just get inaction you’ll get outright action against solving the problem.

So yea, we won’t see much in the way of serious action because the general public does not see the justice in making changes or sacrifices even though they should and will bear the worst of the consequences.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/private-jet-sa...

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#504
post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just like people against nuclear. we can see that live in germany

This is nothing like nuclear. I know the facts about nuclear and are vehemently opposed to it for environmental risk reasons.

so coal it is? better for the environment.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#505
post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nothing like nuclear. I know the facts about nuclear and are vehemently opposed to it for environmental risk reasons.

If nuclear power were profitable, no amount of vehement opposition due to environmental risk could stop it. There'd be nuclear power plants everywhere. Fortunately for your vehement opposition, considering all costs. nuclear power has always been the single most expensive way to generate electricity, has never been profitable, and never will be, even if it wasn't regulated. Investors can't be found unless a governmen…

nuclear did need help to kill itself. I dont know about usa but in europe many political parties were funded to destroy nuclear. trading it for coal and russian gas. nuclear is the best energy we have today . nothing ever come close to it. renewables are a fad heavily backed by people that are making money out of it. You cant power a full sized country with it. it fluctuates too much. in terms of what you need to build and renew solar panels or wind turbines it has a deep environmental impact. it is actually as renewable as nuclear… look at germany relying on fossil fuels and killing the environment to fit your green agenda. living proof of a clown state backed up by corrupt politicians

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nuclear power were profitable, no amount of vehement opposition due to environmental risk could stop it. There'd be nuclear power plants everywhere. Fortunately for your vehement opposition, considering all costs. nuclear power has always been the single most expensive way to generate electricity, has never been profitable, and never will be, even if it wasn't regulated. Investors can't be found unless a governmen…

>never will be I don't believe this is inherently true. Theoretical designs exist that solve a lot of nuclear power's problems: this issue is that it got caught in a death spiral due to Chernobyl. That ended investment and R&D, so nuclear power plants didn't improve while other sources of energy did, so they got even less investment and R&D.

> this issue is that it got caught in a death spiral due to Chernobyl.

Nuclear (fission) power's unprofitability predates Chernobyl to the very first reactors and continuing up to this day. The Shippingport Atomic Power Station was the first commercial reactor to come online, and it was a small reactor, cost $78M to construct in 1958. Decommissioning and cleanup 30 years later cost about $100M. Considering the plant and the resulting mess were small, I really don't think it broke even, but I can't find any economic analysis that includes all the things.

A study in 2019 found that nuclear power has not been profitable anywhere in the world.[1] The study also found nuclear power has never been financially viable, that most plants have been built while heavily subsidised by governments, often motivated by military purposes, and that nuclear power is not a good approach to tackling climate change. It found, after reviewing trends in nuclear power plant construction since 1951, that the average 1,000MW nuclear power plant would incur an average economic loss of about $8B.

And R&D in fission is complete. We know pretty much all there is to know regarding it, and reducing cost simply is not viable through more investment in R&D. We've been working on this in earnest since the late 1940's, so it's no surprise we have figured everything out other than how to do it cheaply enough to achieve economic viability. There are some nuclear power applications where economic viability don't matter, such as nuclear subs and aircraft carriers, and I expect we won't stop building those, but commercial nuclear power just can't work because of the money, and nothing else is needed to say "no," and if it was economically viable, no other objections, such as environmental, would stop it.

[1] https://www.mr-sustainability.com/stories/2020/nuclear-power...

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure: https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/29082/most-common-type-of...

Thank you and interesting. I lived in St. Louis, there was a lot of natural gas. But its next to illinois which is over 80% so wonderi f there's a % in stl not anywhere else.

In that chart, gas stoves are only 51-70% even in Illinois. The 89% label you’re seeing is percent of electric stoves in nearby state of Tennessee.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>never will be I don't believe this is inherently true. Theoretical designs exist that solve a lot of nuclear power's problems: this issue is that it got caught in a death spiral due to Chernobyl. That ended investment and R&D, so nuclear power plants didn't improve while other sources of energy did, so they got even less investment and R&D.

> this issue is that it got caught in a death spiral due to Chernobyl. Nuclear (fission) power's unprofitability predates Chernobyl to the very first reactors and continuing up to this day. The Shippingport Atomic Power Station was the first commercial reactor to come online, and it was a small reactor, cost $78M to construct in 1958. Decommissioning and cleanup 30 years later cost about $100M. Considering the plant…

Yes, it's never been profitable. The first photovoltaic device was built in the 1830's, and mass photovoltaic deployment only became profitable in the last decade. R&D in fission is absolutely not complete. The investment in it has been pathetic since before computer modeling existed, there's no way there aren't efficiencies to find. So much of the field references papers from the 50s and 60s, because that was the last time there was money and a non-strangling amount of regulation. Thorium reactors, theoretically much safer and cheaper, have barely even been tried.

It would take a huge capital investment to get a program like this off the ground, so it's too risky for the market. The invisible hand's rejection is not the same as impossibility.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#509
post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nothing like nuclear. I know the facts about nuclear and are vehemently opposed to it for environmental risk reasons.

so coal it is? better for the environment.

No of course not. It's renewables + long distance transmission across weather zones.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#510
post #498
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal system "presumes" things. Based on your comment, the legal presumptions of innocence is "absurd".

I recommend you study up on the notion of "proceduralism". Codified systems are mutually exclusive with any amount of "agency". Agency is required for beliefs to exist. Ipso facto blah blah blah you're just gonna keep believing some self-serving bullshit so whatever.

you're just gonna keep believing some self-serving bullshit so whatever

Sounds like you can't defend the point.

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