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Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

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Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#131

Post by cmarschner »

riedel wrote: post #120
ghaff wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for visitors who may not even speak the primary language, public transit is awful in most places in terms of onboarding jet lagged visitors. Apparently no one does UX trials of people who have zero familiarity with the system and don't speak the language--though at least they maybe accommodate major Western languages. But, in general, it's pretty awful and you at least should do some research in advance.

I agree that vending machines are really a mess. However I recommend the Deutsche Bahn Navigator App. If you have an account you can easily get most tickets. Also states like Baden-Württemberg got their act together recently and made it possible to book tickets all way through. I recently was in Netherlands trying to get from the Hague to the islands south of Rotterdam and it was also quite confusing. but the new tic…

The company that runs the DB system (HAFAS) provides this system for half of the European railways though. And, interestingly enough, also for BART.

https://www.hacon.de/unternehmen/

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#132

Post by bitL »

While in Germany last summer, I used the 9 EUR ticket and regional trains to go from Frankfurt to Bavarian Alps. The trains were packed, one could not move there and it felt more like being in India than in Germany. I am wondering if that's going to be a norm in the future.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#133

Post by konschubert »

bitL wrote: post #132

While in Germany last summer, I used the 9 EUR ticket and regional trains to go from Frankfurt to Bavarian Alps. The trains were packed, one could not move there and it felt more like being in India than in Germany. I am wondering if that's going to be a norm in the future.

No, not going to be the norm. Because

a) 49 >> 9

b) the 9 Euro ticket was a one-time novelty

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#135

Post by patall »

3D30497420 wrote: post #63
bahnkenner wrote: post #43

The biggest advantage of the new Germany-wide ticket is not the price, but rather that it simplifies things. This is a map of German public transit companies: [0]. I've heard the current fractured system be compared to the Holy Roman Empire. Every little region has its own ticketing system. If you arrive in a new city, you have to figure out how to buy local transit tickets, often with quite complicated rules (e.g.,…

A good example of this complexity is Berlin. Many people have monthly passes for just A and B zones, which comprise the bulk of central Berlin. However, the new airport is just over the border in zone C, which requires an additional ticket. The transit authority knows this and will catch and fine people who neglected or forgot to buy a B to C ticket.

What is complex about the B/C border? That Hönow is B? Because else, it is literary the federal state border. A/B is the S-Bahn-Ring. Sure, three zones are not super simple and where zone C ends is somewhat arbitrary. But aside from that, it's the most logical and simple solution possible.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#136

Post by konschubert »

okr wrote: post #30
tfourb wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It technically is in many places around Germany: The national railway infrastructure is owned by a government-owned entity, as is the main railway company. Many municipal public transport systems are also owned directly by the municipalities themselves, although there are also some semi-privatized systems and the national railway company also owns shares of municipal public transport systems in many major cities. Sti…

I agree. And to finance it, everyone should serve a year of their life for public services like that. So it does not look like, that we want public goods, but someone else but not me has to do the work. The tax burden is already so high.

> everyone should serve a year of their life

Why not just spend a year's worth of taxes on it?

Much more efficient than training a million teenagers to drive the bus every year...

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#137

Post by konschubert »

buran77 wrote: post #84
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It will only get higher if we try to intentionally decrease worker productivity by forcing them to 'serve a year of their life for public services'. That's blatantly false. It works in Austria quite well. The healthcare and social service systems would not be able to function without the mandatory and voluntary unpaid 9 months work of the 17 - 19 year olds before they hit off for university. What worker productivity…

> The healthcare and social service systems would not be able to function without the mandatory and voluntary unpaid 9 months work of the 17 - 19 year olds before they hit off for university. Interesting take. Is there any supporting official position on this or just personal opinion? If true I find it very scary that a country's health and social services systems would crumble were it not for the 3 months per year t…

That's a false dichotomy.

It's not: Do we get a million teenagers or not?

There is a third option:

Let those teenagers join the workforce, use the revenue from the increased societal productivity to hire more professional workers in the health care system.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#138

Post by yazaddaruvala »

BasedGroyper99 wrote: post #81
hannob wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take the train and not the car, you cause a lot less externalities.

It may be the case that I cause a lot less externalities, but I don't think that affects the definition of a public good. If I visited my friend by using a motorcycle, I'd cause less externalities too, but I don't think motorcycles are public goods. Same with scooters, e-bikes and normal bikes.

> but I don't think that affects the definition of a public good

You happen to be misconstruing the two definitions of "public good":

> a commodity or service that is provided without profit to all members of a society, either by the government or a private individual or organization.

> the benefit or well-being of the public.

As such, something can be a "public good" without being "a benefit".

[0] https://www.google.com/search?q=public+goods&si=AMnBZoHHbOut...

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#139

Post by kersplody »

milesskorpen wrote: post #117
asdajksah2123 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Maps does this for you. And nearly every local provider tends to have apps with end to end directions these days.

GM tells you the route, it doesn't let you pay for it all at once at the end of the trip.

Nor does GM understand ticketing nuances or optimized route costs. (discount cards, demand-based pricing). This is a big problem in cities without integrated fare systems. In many places, 3rd party planner apps are a must.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#140

Post by iudqnolq »

jackson1442 wrote: post #123
iudqnolq wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who regularly uses public transit in the USA could tell you this isn't a serious solution to a real issue. You use either Google Maps, Apple Maps, or the Transit app to tell you what to get on. You either buy a local nfc card or have an app on your phone you tap on the sensor to pay. Having to use more than one app isn't an significant burden compared to the fact that that trains and busses don't come to the p…

Some cities come close to that, but most don't. Ignoring the fact that most cities in the US don't have expansive transit, even _getting a transit card_ can be a challenge in many cities. * in Denver, CO - there is a custom app that works fairly well until your phone is dead. Couldn't find a place to purchase tap cards, but the paper ticket vending machines worked well enough. * Seattle, WA - still working on mobile…

I'm quite familiar with the situation in Denver. Your criticism is that it doesn't work well if your phone dies. True, but I'm replying to someone suggesting "Uber for Public Transit". I presume that involves a app rather than a physical product.

It would be kinda neat if we standardized across the country on one app, but it's nowhere near the top of the list of things to address. Most people mostly use one or a small number of public transit systems. You can just have more than one app. Municipalities are also increasingly opening up the payment system such that apps like Google Maps and Transit are able to offer buy ticket buttons.

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