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Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

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Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#121

Post by Demonto »

hannob wrote: post #37
bleep_bloop wrote: post #2

Controversial opinion: Public transport should be publicly owned.

It's not really controversial in Germany, and largely the case. The problems lie elsewhere. IMHO there are two major problems with public transport in Germany. One is underfunding, which causes a lack of reliability, and plenty of lines that are overused. The second is complexity. Each local transport association has its own ticketing system, and they really like to make them complicated. The 49 euro ticket is a step…

It's just stupidity.

It should have no issue at all to align German wide but they never did it.

The Munich MVG for example is doing an experiment were you can pay by an app from some us company were you just start and stop your journey with a button and the app gives you the best price.

They could have instead just created some German wide software company sponsored by all the local public transport agencies and just do it themselves.

It's ridiculousl that modern problems are often not technical problems:-(

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#122

Post by tfourb »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #101
buran77 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not supporting this Ugh, "in support" of the veracity of the statement. You wrote that "the healthcare and social service systems would not be able to function" without the work of teenagers. I just wanted to know if you have any solid evidence of this. I will assume not, suspect that this is the usual political bamboozle people fall for when an explanation is needed, and move on. > And yet at their age they s…

> You're being dismissive of an entire profession as "a child can do it with a bit of training". It's not helping your argument. Nobody is being dismissive of anything. I'm just showing you proof that 17 year olds can also be professionals in that field because what is a professional, but someone who received professional levels of training and got certified. Guess what? So are those 17-19 year old boys and girls to…

Germany used to have a very similar system to Austria's up until a few years ago. Same deal: do military service or "civil service" instead for 9 months. It was in theory compulsory for all male 18 year olds, but getting disqualified on medical grounds was fairly easy. Still, most young men chose to do it and they were an essential part of Germany's health care system and many other social services (and also eco-conservation).

The system was abolished because compulsory military service was not a great fit for the kind of army the politicians wanted anymore and cost a lot of money. The health care and social sector has faced some struggles as a result. While some of the vacancies have been filled by a new voluntary service scheme, overall it has contributed to a lack of service workers and it has increased costs.

I have done civil service and must say it was a fantastic time. Basically anyone I know who did it looks back at the civil service fondly, as it is much like university in terms of the social opportunities, but you get some money on the side. Military service on the other hand was reportedly much more of mixed bag (as you'd expect, I guess).

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#123

Post by jackson1442 »

iudqnolq wrote: post #108
admax88qqq wrote: post #105

We need Uber for Public Transit. Enter you destination and it tells you which bus to get on in real time, when to transfer and deducts payment automatically at the end of your trip. The Uber experience on transit would make lots never riders and occasional riders use transit more often. The mental load is a lot of some people at the end of the day, driving is just easier.

Anyone who regularly uses public transit in the USA could tell you this isn't a serious solution to a real issue. You use either Google Maps, Apple Maps, or the Transit app to tell you what to get on. You either buy a local nfc card or have an app on your phone you tap on the sensor to pay. Having to use more than one app isn't an significant burden compared to the fact that that trains and busses don't come to the p…

Some cities come close to that, but most don't. Ignoring the fact that most cities in the US don't have expansive transit, even _getting a transit card_ can be a challenge in many cities.

* in Denver, CO - there is a custom app that works fairly well until your phone is dead. Couldn't find a place to purchase tap cards, but the paper ticket vending machines worked well enough.

* Seattle, WA - still working on mobile NFC tickets, and the current mobile ticketing system seems to only allow existing (> 1 year ago) customers to pay using a credit card. All new customers seem to only be allowed to use the app by filling up their balance using cash at a convenience store. Tap cards were an extremely rare find last summer. Only a select few buses seem to send their tracking data to Apple/Google maps, the OneBusAway app was really the only one that was close to accurate.

* Dallas, TX - yet another custom app implementation

* Austin, TX - _another_ custom app

* Portland, OR - can only buy tap cards at some retailers, BUT they accept contactless credit cards and have an app that integrates with mobile NFC

While I haven't been to NYC and a number of other cities with large transit systems, Portland OR and Washington DC had the best implementations, largely because they simply integrated with the native mobile NFC wallet. DC even lets you provision your card straight from the iOS Wallet app, though you can't use a standard contactless credit card.

IMO the solution isn't an app, but rather simplifying fares and accepting contactless credit cards for fares. In Portland you "earn" your passes by riding rather than needing to purchase in advance - once you have paid $100 in a month you're automatically exempted from fares for the rest of a month.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#124

Post by tfourb »

Demonto wrote: post #119
cromka wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How is your comment connected to publicly owned local transport?

Because public transport is owned by the public (or publicly owned entities) in many places outside the US. In Europe, it is the norm, not the exception, as is the case in many other places that have some sort of socialism/social democratic history.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#125

Post by morsch »

eliaspro wrote: post #104
morsch wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you don't have to figure it out. You can just punch in start and end of your journey into one of several apps that work nationwide, and pay whatever it says. Of course, many people don't have any of the apps, particularly people who rarely use public transport, which are also the people most easily confuse by the complicated fee structure. Unfortunately, the new monthly ticket does little to help them. 49 EUR…

You're out of luck, if none of the route segments is served by Deutsche Bahn (which is often the case for regional routes), because then you'll be unable to buy your ticket using the most common nation-wide app DB Navigator.

That's not true, they sell tickets for many regional transport associations.

https://www.bahn.de/angebot/regio/verbuende

Not all of them, I'm sure, but all of the major ones seem to be covered.

I'm using it every day, because it's better than using the association's own app, which is not saying much. Or I used to, anyway, now I'm doing the 49 EUR thing.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#126

Post by tfourb »

Demonto wrote: post #121
hannob wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really controversial in Germany, and largely the case. The problems lie elsewhere. IMHO there are two major problems with public transport in Germany. One is underfunding, which causes a lack of reliability, and plenty of lines that are overused. The second is complexity. Each local transport association has its own ticketing system, and they really like to make them complicated. The 49 euro ticket is a step…

It's just stupidity. It should have no issue at all to align German wide but they never did it. The Munich MVG for example is doing an experiment were you can pay by an app from some us company were you just start and stop your journey with a button and the app gives you the best price. They could have instead just created some German wide software company sponsored by all the local public transport agencies and just…

The issue is not the lack of technical expertise. The structure of the German public transport system is very localized, due to its historical growth. local networks are often owned by the municipalities that they are serving, the actual busses are sometimes provided by private companies on contract, the national railway carrier has contracts with state governments and certain local entities for specific services, national, state and local governments are subsidizing various services, etc.

I completely agree that it is a mess, but it is not really easy to solve with so many stakeholders and so many (sometimes conflicting but valid) different priorities at stake.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#127

Post by locallost »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #27
_s wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With 5G speeds and unlimited data* - do you even need WiFi? Not to mention most companies nowadays have clear policies of (not) connecting to free public wifi's or even working in public spaces where your screen may be visible. * Usually the first 50gb is max speed and then it drops to 25/25 etc - which is still really fast.

Because network coverage in Germany is pretty bad, so you are mostly out of reach from networks when traveling by train. It's gotten better over the years since I moved here. But I'm basically still offline 80% of the journey between Berlin and my parents place in the Netherlands. As soon as you cross the border into NL, it's fine. It's a German issue. You have this effect on all its borders. You travel to the border…

I travel long distance exclusively by train and can't really confirm. Sure there might be an issue here and there, but overall it's fine. Maybe if you want to watch a very bandwidth intensive video, but I don't know if that's realistic.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#128

Post by ghaff »

riedel wrote: post #120
ghaff wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for visitors who may not even speak the primary language, public transit is awful in most places in terms of onboarding jet lagged visitors. Apparently no one does UX trials of people who have zero familiarity with the system and don't speak the language--though at least they maybe accommodate major Western languages. But, in general, it's pretty awful and you at least should do some research in advance.

I agree that vending machines are really a mess. However I recommend the Deutsche Bahn Navigator App. If you have an account you can easily get most tickets. Also states like Baden-Württemberg got their act together recently and made it possible to book tickets all way through. I recently was in Netherlands trying to get from the Hague to the islands south of Rotterdam and it was also quite confusing. but the new tic…

I was just in Amsterdam. One of our locals there said that, although there's an ongoing switch to just tapping contactless credit cards, he advised just getting a contactless transit chip card because even if it cost a few dollar more it would more reliably work everywhere. Things have improved in most places over time but it can still be confusing for the occasional visitor.

I remember at some point pre-pandemic I was in the UK with a friend and we had all these these different tickets/receipts were trying to use to go through a turnstile and doubtless really pissing off the people lined up behind us but it was super-unintuitive what we needed to stick into the machine.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#129

Post by _fizz_buzz_ »

busymom0 wrote: post #41

Can this have the potential of having the MoviePass type outcome? Also, wouldn’t this overcrowd public transit?

It's backed/subsidised by the government, so a MoviePass outcome is unlikely, because nobody expects it to ever be profitable.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#130

Post by kibwen »

ben_w wrote: post #39
BasedGroyper99 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a public good? It only benefits the individuals who are travelling. If I take the train to visit my sister, I don't see how that is in the public's interest.

Public parks you don't sit in are still public goods; public litter bins are still public goods even if you never have anything to put into them; public roads are still a public good even if you don't own a vehicle. Likewise, if you want them to be, so is public transport. Though, here's a question: I don't think I've ever seen planes classified as public transport — is that just my observations being weird, or is th…

> I don't think I've ever seen planes classified as public transport

In remote parts of the world, planes absolutely should be classified as public transport. Remote towns in Alaska, for example, are essentially inaccessible without bush planes.

However, planes are expensive to operate on a per-passenger basis, and in most places there are cheaper ways to facilitate helping people move around, especially since most trips from most people are short-distance.

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