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Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

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Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#81

Post by BasedGroyper99 »

hannob wrote: post #34
BasedGroyper99 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a public good? It only benefits the individuals who are travelling. If I take the train to visit my sister, I don't see how that is in the public's interest.

If you take the train and not the car, you cause a lot less externalities.

It may be the case that I cause a lot less externalities, but I don't think that affects the definition of a public good. If I visited my friend by using a motorcycle, I'd cause less externalities too, but I don't think motorcycles are public goods. Same with scooters, e-bikes and normal bikes.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#82

Post by zimpenfish »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #28
zimpenfish wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't really cover a lot of things you'd want to know like price, satisfaction, reliability, etc. - all of which, I believe, are strongly negative compared with 30 years ago. Also doesn't tell you if it's long distance or commuter or both - which is an important distinction since many more people commute these days. In summary, it's a meaningless piece of chartjunk [edit: in the context of nationalisation vs privat…

> price, satisfaction, reliability Do these matter if ridership is falling?

> Do these matter if ridership is falling?

If they're not a proximal cause, no. If they are, yes.

But if ridership is going up even whilst prices are offensively high, satisfaction is at an all-time low, and reliability is a joke, then you can't assert that ridership is going up because of privatisation, it's more despite privatisation because people have few other options (cf London where driving is slow because of congestion, buses are often stuck in the same congestion, cycling is still sketchy in some parts, high prices have forced people out of walking distance, etc.)

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#83

Post by eska »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #50
qwytw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tax burden is already so high It will only get higher if we try to intentionally decrease worker productivity by forcing them to 'serve a year of their life for public services'.

>It will only get higher if we try to intentionally decrease worker productivity by forcing them to 'serve a year of their life for public services'. That's blatantly false. It works in Austria quite well. The healthcare and social service systems would not be able to function without the mandatory and voluntary unpaid 9 months work of the 17 - 19 year olds before they hit off for university. What worker productivity…

It seems like you do not realize that the 30 year olds who don’t flip burgers and make more than minimum age were once those 19 year olds whose career you’ve delayed by 1 year.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#84

Post by buran77 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #50
qwytw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tax burden is already so high It will only get higher if we try to intentionally decrease worker productivity by forcing them to 'serve a year of their life for public services'.

>It will only get higher if we try to intentionally decrease worker productivity by forcing them to 'serve a year of their life for public services'. That's blatantly false. It works in Austria quite well. The healthcare and social service systems would not be able to function without the mandatory and voluntary unpaid 9 months work of the 17 - 19 year olds before they hit off for university. What worker productivity…

> The healthcare and social service systems would not be able to function without the mandatory and voluntary unpaid 9 months work of the 17 - 19 year olds before they hit off for university.

Interesting take. Is there any supporting official position on this or just personal opinion?

If true I find it very scary that a country's health and social services systems would crumble were it not for the 3 months per year the teenagers of the country contribute. How do these systems handle the rest of the 9 months every year when the teenagers are unavailable on account of being in school. Why would a healthy society operate at the very limit of crashing down because the natality dropped or parents/teenagers start refusing to provide this service?

Now I've dealt with a lot of trainees in my life. All university graduates, including with PhDs. They all take weeks to months full time on the job until they're ready to do anything productive in the simplest of jobs. I can't imagine teenagers being or becoming anywhere near productive enough in 3 months per year (with 9 month breaks) to support a country's healthcare system from collapsing. And that's not even touching on the topic that you're forcing children to give up what's probably the last carefree time of their lives to do a job they may not want and are definitely not prepared to do.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#85

Post by BasedGroyper99 »

Hasnep wrote: post #62
BasedGroyper99 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a public good? It only benefits the individuals who are travelling. If I take the train to visit my sister, I don't see how that is in the public's interest.

By that logic, why is anything a public good? If I drink water from a public water fountain why is that in the public's interest?

> If I drink water from a public water fountain why is that in the public's interest?

If there were no fountain, then many people would get water bottles and that's too big of a hassle.

Defining a public good is quite hard, and any definition will most likely other controversial terms like "reasonably" or "foreseeable" in them. However, I think a public good is something that can be shared by many people in reasonable amounts, and that cannot reasonably be attained by the average individual. It is usually characterized by its scale.

So for example, you can't build your own park, but you can use the public park without blasting your music on max volume.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#86

Post by BasedGroyper99 »

danaris wrote: post #64
BasedGroyper99 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a public good? It only benefits the individuals who are travelling. If I take the train to visit my sister, I don't see how that is in the public's interest.

This is a very individualistic and American view of what a "public good" should be.

I'm neither an individualist nor an American. I'm actually from Germany and experienced how the 3 months of Deutschlandticket affected the people around me.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#87

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

buran77 wrote: post #84
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It will only get higher if we try to intentionally decrease worker productivity by forcing them to 'serve a year of their life for public services'. That's blatantly false. It works in Austria quite well. The healthcare and social service systems would not be able to function without the mandatory and voluntary unpaid 9 months work of the 17 - 19 year olds before they hit off for university. What worker productivity…

> The healthcare and social service systems would not be able to function without the mandatory and voluntary unpaid 9 months work of the 17 - 19 year olds before they hit off for university. Interesting take. Is there any supporting official position on this or just personal opinion? If true I find it very scary that a country's health and social services systems would crumble were it not for the 3 months per year t…

> Is there any supporting official position on this or just personal opinion?

The government figures and claims are supporting this opinion. In fact, it's been the government's opinion, not mine. I'm just quoting it.

>If true I find it very scary that a country's health and social service systems would crumble were it not for the 3 months per year the teenagers of the country contribut

9 months not 3, and yes, that's socialized care for you and an aging population when you have too many people in need of care, and too little contributions into the system since the economy has stagnated post 2008 and taxes are already high enough and no more money can be obtained this way. And it's not just healthcare work, but all social services like kindergartens, retirement homes, refugees homes, etc. that make use of 9 months of teenage labor.

> I can't imagine teenagers being or becoming anywhere near productive enough in 3 months per year

You don't need too long training to be qualified to drive an ambulance or perform CPR. At least not here. Teenagers are quite smart and quick learners if you treat them well.

>you're forcing children to give up what's probably the last carefree time of their lives to do a job they may not want and are definitely not prepared to do.

The military service is forced nation-wide (a system kept through democratic vote), while doing social public civil work is the alternative choice if you feel the military is not for you.

And the children get paid for it, and for many it's the camaraderie and opportunity to meet other young people from other parts of the country/city and make life long friends or meet future spouses while learning useful social and life skills and feeling a sense of self worth for contributing to society, especially in the context of the west having a loneliness and depression epidemic among teens. It's also an opportunity for silver spoon kids of privilege families to get to interact with the lower classes of society and soo how others live, through this kind of work.

You're making it sounds like they're prisoners for life, but they're still free to go binge drinking and care free sex in the south of Spain after.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#88

Post by eska »

beebeepka wrote: post #54
Escapado wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't dispute that there is corruption and that there are still Nazis and right wing forces around - especially if you look in certain german states. But if I am completely honest lots of government agencies and the people working there are entirely complacent with the state of bureaucracy because they don't feel like they can or need to change this sorry state of affairs. I had to wait more than two months to get…

> I had to wait more than two months to get an appointment to be able to formally leave the christian church to avoid paying church tax. Learning something new every day. How does it work. When and how does one get signed up for this lovely tax

You automatically get signed up for it if your parents were in the church and paid tax. You have to pay a fee to get out of it and keep your paper document forever in case the government forgets you don’t owe that tax for 20 years past

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#89

Post by morsch »

bahnkenner wrote: post #43

The biggest advantage of the new Germany-wide ticket is not the price, but rather that it simplifies things. This is a map of German public transit companies: [0]. I've heard the current fractured system be compared to the Holy Roman Empire. Every little region has its own ticketing system. If you arrive in a new city, you have to figure out how to buy local transit tickets, often with quite complicated rules (e.g.,…

I mean, you don't have to figure it out. You can just punch in start and end of your journey into one of several apps that work nationwide, and pay whatever it says.

Of course, many people don't have any of the apps, particularly people who rarely use public transport, which are also the people most easily confuse by the complicated fee structure.

Unfortunately, the new monthly ticket does little to help them. 49 EUR isn't a value proposition for them, and so they are still stuck with the awful status quo.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#90

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

eska wrote: post #83
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It will only get higher if we try to intentionally decrease worker productivity by forcing them to 'serve a year of their life for public services'. That's blatantly false. It works in Austria quite well. The healthcare and social service systems would not be able to function without the mandatory and voluntary unpaid 9 months work of the 17 - 19 year olds before they hit off for university. What worker productivity…

It seems like you do not realize that the 30 year olds who don’t flip burgers and make more than minimum age were once those 19 year olds whose career you’ve delayed by 1 year.

It's the system the democratic voters have voted to keep.
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