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More people are getting away with murder

npr.org

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Re: More people are getting away with murder

#51

Post by bugglebeetle »

aristus wrote: post #24
0zemp2c wrote: post #3

Why limit this to unsolved murders? How many police depts ignore property crime? How many police depts have hour long wait times for 911 response? How many 911 systems routinely delay or drop calls? We had a story near here recently where a DUI accident investigation couldn't proceed because it took so long for police to arrive that the suspect sobered up enough Or the woman who was hit by a car and the police took o…

It's pretty clear that cops are staging a slowdown strike. They are one of the few industries where they get more money when their KPIs go south.

It’s not a slowdown strike, it’s gangland extortion. The mob is also famous for demanding “protection” money, where what they’re “protecting” you from is themselves and little else.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#52

Post by dist-epoch »

version_five wrote: post #25
privatedan wrote: post #22

Was on a jury for a murder trial dec 2021. The trial gave me a new found respect for how trials are conducted, what evidence is allowed in, how defendants are protected, and the general thought and reasoning behind it all. Then, the jury deliberated and I lost a ton of respect for the ability of a jury of my peers to logically reason and responsibly decide. It was an absolute shit show in false pretenses, irrational…

Your anecdote sounds like an example of the system working to me. I'm absolutely sure your assessment is correct: I lost a ton of respect for the ability of a jury of my peers to logically reason and responsibly decide People as a rule are horrible at logical thinking. But that's absolutely the right side to err on. Much better for twelve people to have to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. Put another way, it's…

How will that continue to work in the future as society becomes more polarized and culture wars grow in importance?

Every trial will be a hung one, you will have one blue/red juror which will refuse to find guilty a blue/red defendant.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#53

Post by Zigurd »

samwaltmanjr wrote: post #5

How about “more murders are being discovered” than before. In old times, you could’ve done killed someone and blame it on anything.

One reason why murder is a widely cited stat for police effectiveness is that it is harder to falsify the top line number. But as others have pointed out it's not impervious to being gamed.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#54

Post by arp242 »

version_five wrote: post #25
privatedan wrote: post #22

Was on a jury for a murder trial dec 2021. The trial gave me a new found respect for how trials are conducted, what evidence is allowed in, how defendants are protected, and the general thought and reasoning behind it all. Then, the jury deliberated and I lost a ton of respect for the ability of a jury of my peers to logically reason and responsibly decide. It was an absolute shit show in false pretenses, irrational…

Your anecdote sounds like an example of the system working to me. I'm absolutely sure your assessment is correct: I lost a ton of respect for the ability of a jury of my peers to logically reason and responsibly decide People as a rule are horrible at logical thinking. But that's absolutely the right side to err on. Much better for twelve people to have to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. Put another way, it's…

In principle I agree, but it also works the other way round: people get convicted for crimes they did not commit due to unreasonable and unsound reasoning. The fact that things like the Innocence Project exist is by itself already a huge red flag.

On balance, I'm not sure if it's biased towards letting people go free. It might be interesting to compare e.g. the UK with some European countries (in the US the justice system is too bananas on several levels).

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#55

Post by umvi »

privatedan wrote: post #22

Was on a jury for a murder trial dec 2021. The trial gave me a new found respect for how trials are conducted, what evidence is allowed in, how defendants are protected, and the general thought and reasoning behind it all. Then, the jury deliberated and I lost a ton of respect for the ability of a jury of my peers to logically reason and responsibly decide. It was an absolute shit show in false pretenses, irrational…

> Then, the jury deliberated and I lost a ton of respect for the ability of a jury of my peers to logically reason and responsibly decide.

Isn't this a consequence of jury vetting on the part of the attorneys? i.e. the defense does not want logical/rational thinkers on the jury if they have a bad case (know the defendant committed the crime, lots of evidence against defendant, etc). In those cases they want people who think with emotions and who can be emotionally swayed. So really both sides (prosecution and defense) will play games to try to bias the jury in their favor, whether that means adding or subtracting STEM types from the jury.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#56

Post by George83728 »

rileymat2 wrote: post #41

One thing is kind of unclear to me, are we segregating by murder type? For example (not sure if true): It would seem a drop in easier to identity domestic violence murders would throw stats off for the others that were always hard to solve. My googling is failing on getting the mix of murders by type by year.

https://www.ojp.gov/library/publications/relationship-murder...

> Relationship of Murder Victims to Alleged Offenders, 2021

> Of the estimated 4,970 female victims of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter in 2021, data reported by law enforcement agencies indicate that one-third (34%) were killed by an intimate partner (figure 1). By comparison, about 6% of the 17,970 males murdered that year were victims of intimate partner homicide.

> Overall, three-quarters (76%) of female murders and more than half (56%) of male murders were perpetrated by someone known to the victim. About 16% of female murder victims were killed by a nonintimate family member—parent, grandparent, sibling, in-law, and other family member—compared to 10% of male murder victims.

> A larger percentage of males (21%) than females (12%) were murdered by a stranger. For 1 out of every 3 male murder victims and 1 out of every 5 female murder victims, the relationship between the victim and the offender was unknown.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#57

Post by Zigurd »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #48
Zigurd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on the jury for a simple drunk driving case where the cop, the only witness testifying, with no other evidence presented, was caught lying about being "run off the road." Lost a lot of faith in mankind that day.

Hah. That happened to my brother in law. He was driving home in twilight (after regular work day, no drinking involved) and a mad guy jumped in front of him on the road. My brother in law swerved and avoided the crazy dude and kept driving. A kilometer later he was chased down by a angry violent police officer in police cruiser who arrested him, put him in cuffs, slammed him into the cruiser with no discussion. Turns…

Oddly, I have not been called to jury duty since.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#58

Post by drak0n1c »

everdrive wrote: post #23

The comment section here is in poor shape. Violent crime is up all over the united states, and at least from what I've seen, there is not a single easy explanation for why. ie, I'm very sympathetic to the argument that "de-fund the police" has had very negative effects, however we're seeing violent crime rise in districts which were not de-funded. The whole red vs. blue states / cities thing doesn't seem to stack up…

My guess is that it’s a secondary consequence of the initial 2020-2021 wave of media theft-apologia, increasing liability for police, and defunding/prosecution-abstention: now it’s the copycat problem writ large due to social media. People seeing visceral videos and group chats of crowds, gangs, and individuals doing blatant petty and violent crimes in a few places (and oftentimes getting away with it) is probably emboldening would-be criminals to copy techniques they think would work in other places. I think the rise in mass shootings is another result of the social media copycat effect.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#59

Post by rileymat2 »

George83728 wrote: post #56
rileymat2 wrote: post #41

One thing is kind of unclear to me, are we segregating by murder type? For example (not sure if true): It would seem a drop in easier to identity domestic violence murders would throw stats off for the others that were always hard to solve. My googling is failing on getting the mix of murders by type by year.

https://www.ojp.gov/library/publications/relationship-murder... > Relationship of Murder Victims to Alleged Offenders, 2021 > Of the estimated 4,970 female victims of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter in 2021, data reported by law enforcement agencies indicate that one-third (34%) were killed by an intimate partner (figure 1). By comparison, about 6% of the 17,970 males murdered that year were victims of intimate…

Oh yes, I can find them for a snapshot, was looking for a graph of the mix of the types of homicide over years. A change in this mix could drastically affect clearance rates.

Re: More people are getting away with murder

#60

Post by msrenee »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #36
msrenee wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's presumably the sign outside the church of the pastor they interviewed. He puts up wooden crosses for each homicide. Makes sense if you've read the article.

Yes, I read the explanation. The actual explanation has no racial component. The sign, and NPR prominently featuring the sign, implies that the explanation does have a racial component, even though it does not. Hence my complaint.

Oh, you asked why the sign was in the photo as though you thought it wasn't associated with the story in any way. It gives a little background context for the type of Catholic church whose pastor was interviewed. I don't know if you've spent much time in various Catholic congregations, but the sentiment that racism is bad is not echoed in a disturbing number of them. It's unfortunate that you are offended at the sign being used as a framing piece for the article.
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