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Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

covertactionmagazine.com

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Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#271

Post by MikusR »

b33j0r wrote: post #20
freetime2 wrote: post #17

It’s a travesty that Edward Snowden is still a fugitive in the United States. James Clapper went in front of congress and lied about the scope of surveillance on US citizens. Snowden saw it as his moral obligation to expose those lies, and he did it in the least destructive way possible by leaking the evidence to qualified journalists.

Do we think accepting Russian citizenship changes his story? I can’t decide.

Citizenship maybe not. But amplifying russian propaganda and lies changes it significantly.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#272

Post by mint2 »

29athrowaway wrote: post #41

Julian Assange (not a whistleblower, I know) said wars are a way to transfer public money into private hands. Everything in the US is about the same. Like quantitative easing.

Julian assange is a hypocritical scam artist - says a bunch of nice sounding words about democracy, abuse of power and war and yet his actions, speaking louder than words, increased all of those.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#273

Post by jvm_fan »

paulmd wrote: post #71

Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…

> It's actually probably worse to rock the boat and try to save a failing project, not only do you take it on yourself if it fails (which it likely will anyway, because they won't listen/the project is too far gone) but even if it succeeds you've stuck your head up and shown yourself to not be a yes-man.

This is really bad career advice. There are certain situations where it makes sense to rock the boat, situations where it doesn't matter, and situations where it'll fuck you over

This rule that you've come up with seems really overgeneralized. If I disagree with someone or someone disagrees with me, we reach consensus. If someone disagrees with me instead of just nodding at everything, it makes it easier to form a mental picture of what that person actually knows. Someone who just agrees with everything has something to hide

This type of attitude is self perpetuating and creates an unproductive and political work culture

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#274

Post by b33j0r »

tacocataco wrote: post #260
b33j0r wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we think accepting Russian citizenship changes his story? I can’t decide.

I was under the impression Snowden happened to be in Russia on route to another country when he was stuck for some reason. IIRC his passport was revoked, but if I'm wrong I'd enjoy some readings that say otherwise. Its been a while since I followed the story.

He first went to Hong Kong, then like Korea (we’re not sure), then Russia.

It’s a little suspicious eh? I thought the american people deserved to know the things he released…

But it might have been less innocent than one guy being a whistleblower. Other peer powers accommodated him in their interests.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#275

Post by readme »

jvm_fan wrote: post #273
paulmd wrote: post #71

Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…

> It's actually probably worse to rock the boat and try to save a failing project, not only do you take it on yourself if it fails (which it likely will anyway, because they won't listen/the project is too far gone) but even if it succeeds you've stuck your head up and shown yourself to not be a yes-man. This is really bad career advice. There are certain situations where it makes sense to rock the boat, situations w…

I rocked the boat to save a failing project and then I had to bust my ass working 24 hour stints for several months to make sure it succeeded while I watched incompetent people go on vacations.

His advice is legit.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#276

Post by psychlops »

andrewmutz wrote: post #22
freetime2 wrote: post #17

It’s a travesty that Edward Snowden is still a fugitive in the United States. James Clapper went in front of congress and lied about the scope of surveillance on US citizens. Snowden saw it as his moral obligation to expose those lies, and he did it in the least destructive way possible by leaking the evidence to qualified journalists.

I disagree that he did it in the least destructive way possible. He revealed far more secrets than were necessary to blow the whistle. Just take a look at the list of secrets he revealed. Most of them are not about domestic spying at all: https://www.lawfareblog.com/snowden-revelations If he wanted to blow the whistle on domestic spying, he could have shared documents with journalists about domestic spying.

Perhaps if they weren't trampling on the law they wouldn't run the risk of legitimate secrets being let out from numerous malcontents.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#277

Post by phailhaus »

macrolocal wrote: post #255
phailhaus wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and it's why I think it's fundamentally impossible to prevent retaliation against whistleblowers. Organizations act in favor of self-preservation, like any living thing. Whistleblowers by definition act against them, so an organization will always benefit by removing them. Failure to do so will prolong the damage and encourage further transgressions.

Although, silencing whistleblowers is as weak a strategy as security through obscurity.

I disagree, it is an extremely strong strategy. You shut them up, they cannot inflict any more damage. The public can speculate what other secrets exist, but they can't know as they would if the whistleblower was kept around. The short-term negative publicity is tiny compared to the fallout if more information was leaked. This is why organizations basically always move to silence: It works.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#278

Post by throwaway27391 »

whitemary wrote: post #10
cjbgkagh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder if such people are being encourage by those who seek to undermine the concept of whistleblowing as a whole. Like encouraging the appending of 'gate' to every scandal name, even trivial ones, to minimize the seriousness of Watergate. EDIT: I should point out that an effective strategy to undermine opposition is to encourage the worst in them by secretly supporting those who embody the worst. When doing…

Whistleblowers don't do that. The media does. Do you know what whistleblowing is?

[flagged]

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#279

Post by throwaway27391 »

killjoywashere wrote: post #167
HeckFeck wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the problem. You know they are speaking an essential truth when you look at the feathers ruffled by Snowden, Assange and those who follow in their path. They will get their due acclaim if we're lucky to have a more moral and free society in the future.

[flagged]

I don't think handmaiden’s tale was a moral society. Hanging women on walls and raping them doesn't seem very moral. Oppression through purity propaganda more descriptive. A moral society wouldn't be oppressive and murderous.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#280

Post by Ghexor »

trinsic2 wrote: post #229
paulmd wrote: post #71

Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…

This is why I don't operate in these power structures. From 1995 to 2005 I worked for corporations and seeing it was harmful to my well being, I decide to provide computer services directly to the public. Now I set my own rules, and I work very hard to set my own ethical spaces where people are forced to do the right thing if they want to operate in my world. I have found that people want to do the right things, but…

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment and your behavior. I'm grateful for everyone of us out there working with strong moral boundaries. Thank you!

I also disagree with your perspective on corporations. To me they seem very much alive - in a less recognisable form, more complex than we can grasp with human minds.

I argue mainly because I'd like to keep the term as something free of judgment. A group of people that comes together as a larger body or organism can be quite beautiful too.

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