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Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

covertactionmagazine.com

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Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#251

Post by lookdangerous »

trinsic2 wrote: post #229
paulmd wrote: post #71

Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…

This is why I don't operate in these power structures. From 1995 to 2005 I worked for corporations and seeing it was harmful to my well being, I decide to provide computer services directly to the public. Now I set my own rules, and I work very hard to set my own ethical spaces where people are forced to do the right thing if they want to operate in my world. I have found that people want to do the right things, but…

Any large group of people organized together for enough time forms a body - the body of tradition and regulation.

A large body of text is also known as a corpus.

Both the large groups and the large texts are dead in the sense that they do not change of their own power. They are static and closed to new information.

Both text and groups must be re-animated by the individual.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#252

Post by oceanplexian »

0xDEF wrote: post #232
andrewmutz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that he did it in the least destructive way possible. He revealed far more secrets than were necessary to blow the whistle. Just take a look at the list of secrets he revealed. Most of them are not about domestic spying at all: https://www.lawfareblog.com/snowden-revelations If he wanted to blow the whistle on domestic spying, he could have shared documents with journalists about domestic spying.

As a European I actually think Snowden's primary motivation was opposition to US foreign policy and control of the world. There is no other reason to contact Glenn Greenwald in late 2012. In 2008-2012 Glenn Greenwald was primarily known as one of the harshest opponents of US foreign policy and someone who didn't shy away from defending Russia, Iran and other geopolitical adversaries of the US. If it was about anti-su…

> As a European I actually think Snowden's primary motivation was opposition to US foreign policy and control of the world. There is no other reason to contact Glenn Greenwald in late 2012. In 2008-2012 Glenn Greenwald was primarily known as one of the harshest opponents of US foreign policy and someone who didn't shy away from defending Russia, Iran and other geopolitical adversaries of the US.

This isn't why he went to Greenwald, he did so to avoid American outlets like the New York Times, since before the leak they censored the illegal wiretapping story (Room 641A) at the request of the Bush Administration.

Snowden found himself in a situation where both the Government and the Media were in cahoots to cover up criminal behavior. At that point I don't blame him, going to Glenn and then fleeing to Russia was exactly the right thing to do. If he didn't the story would have been covered up and he'd be sitting in a dark cell right now, with none of us none the wiser.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#253

Post by ngngngng »

freetime2 wrote: post #17

It’s a travesty that Edward Snowden is still a fugitive in the United States. James Clapper went in front of congress and lied about the scope of surveillance on US citizens. Snowden saw it as his moral obligation to expose those lies, and he did it in the least destructive way possible by leaking the evidence to qualified journalists.

Your usage of the word travesty is a tragedy (and ironically, also a travesty)

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#254

Post by 0xDEF »

nagkl wrote: post #245
0xDEF wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European I actually think Snowden's primary motivation was opposition to US foreign policy and control of the world. There is no other reason to contact Glenn Greenwald in late 2012. In 2008-2012 Glenn Greenwald was primarily known as one of the harshest opponents of US foreign policy and someone who didn't shy away from defending Russia, Iran and other geopolitical adversaries of the US. If it was about anti-su…

Snowden contacted Laura Poitras first, with this famous mail: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/snowdens-first-emails-to-poitr... "You ask why I picked you. I didn't. You did. The surveillance you've experienced means you've been selected, a term which will mean more to you as you learn about how the modern sigint system works." I wish everyone here would watch the movie Citizen Four to learn more about the backgrounds a…

>trying to link him to anti-US foreign policy sentiments

Being anti-US foreign policy is generally a good thing and the only reason you are going to leak to Glenn Greenwald of all people in late 2012.

Snowden also exposed that it was not Bashar al-Assad's legitimate democratically elected government that turned off the Internet in Syria in 2012. It was actually the NSA:

https://time.com/3107684/snowden-nsa-syria-cybersecurity/

No other "anti-surveillance activist" would have stood up Assad in 2012. Only Snowden dared to do that because he is a heroic world citizen opposed to US influence and control of the world.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#255

Post by macrolocal »

phailhaus wrote: post #212
paulmd wrote: post #71

Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…

Yeah, and it's why I think it's fundamentally impossible to prevent retaliation against whistleblowers. Organizations act in favor of self-preservation, like any living thing. Whistleblowers by definition act against them, so an organization will always benefit by removing them. Failure to do so will prolong the damage and encourage further transgressions.

Although, silencing whistleblowers is as weak a strategy as security through obscurity.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#256

Post by infamouscow »

handedness wrote: post #211
penneallagricia wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, then why punish whistleblowers so harshly? Countries should consider it a useful public service.

Leaking sources and/or methods gets people killed. Good people often living in terrible places and circumstances, many of them. Maybe most. It also makes good information more difficult to come by for a long time. Nations spying on nations (even allies) feels terrible but in practice is probably a net good for all. It reduces uncertainty, and uncertainty has historically been a major trigger for armed conflict as one…

> Leaking sources and/or methods gets people killed.

Is there any evidence of this being true or speculation?

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#257

Post by generic92034 »

trinsic2 wrote: post #229
paulmd wrote: post #71

Whistleblowers act against power structures and that's the ultimate transgression as far as the power structure is concerned. Transgressions in favor of the state are one thing, you'll get a slap on the wrist at most, even personal benefit and promotion in some cases, but transgressions against the state are what will provoke a real response. See, for example, the incredible vigor pursued against the people who relea…

This is why I don't operate in these power structures. From 1995 to 2005 I worked for corporations and seeing it was harmful to my well being, I decide to provide computer services directly to the public. Now I set my own rules, and I work very hard to set my own ethical spaces where people are forced to do the right thing if they want to operate in my world. I have found that people want to do the right things, but…

While you may be less subject to corporate power structures the way you are operating now, you are still subject to all kinds of other power structures. As the GP has submitted, try working against the power structure of the country you are living in and you most likely will suffer greatly. The same even happens on lower levels (state, municipality, family?).

And even regarding corporate power structures you are only avoiding a certain kind of their possible influences. For example, if a corporation buys up all water supply in your living area you can feel that influence, even if you are not working for them.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#258

Post by 0xDEF »

gerikson wrote: post #235

This outlet seems pretty Putin-friendly: https://covertactionmagazine.com/category/ukraine/

Why is it a problem to be Putin-friendly? I don't understand how you can praise Snowden and completely ignore what he has been telling us about the Ukraine and Russia and why we can't trust what US media and politicians are telling us.

Re: Whistleblowers are the conscience of society, yet suffer gravely

#260

Post by tacocataco »

b33j0r wrote: post #20
freetime2 wrote: post #17

It’s a travesty that Edward Snowden is still a fugitive in the United States. James Clapper went in front of congress and lied about the scope of surveillance on US citizens. Snowden saw it as his moral obligation to expose those lies, and he did it in the least destructive way possible by leaking the evidence to qualified journalists.

Do we think accepting Russian citizenship changes his story? I can’t decide.

I was under the impression Snowden happened to be in Russia on route to another country when he was stuck for some reason.

IIRC his passport was revoked, but if I'm wrong I'd enjoy some readings that say otherwise. Its been a while since I followed the story.

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