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U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

cdc.gov

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Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#101

Post by Planktonne »

bobitsaboy wrote: post #62
Planktonne wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Some amount of pressure or coercion' is still rape; no matter how you use language to minimise it, it adds an amount of 'non-' to the 'consenual'.

Not going to play semantics here. There is definitely a different level of trauma for a person to experience for something they are physically forced or threatened by force to endure than something they are convinced to do even if they would have otherwise not. It's insulting to victims of the former to pretend otherwise.

Sure, there are different levels of trauma in different incidents.

That doesn't make the less-obviously traumatic incidents okay; they're still very bad.

> It's insulting to victims of the former to pretend otherwise.

There's nothing insulting to victims in acknowledging other victims. There is something extremely insulting to victims in refusing to acknowledge any harm to them if it doesn't meet your arbitrary standard for significance.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#102

Post by throwaway290 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #86
throwaway290 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) I think it is also pretty bad, when mental health is concerned. When you (assuming a teenage boy) were verbally forced to have sex with a girl you didn't lose anything but per Christian culture in the US a girl would. It's just a bigger deal. 2) in this case it is "physically forced", see the paper.

1) At least were I came from, to my understanding, girls were as much pressured by their peers as boys, if not more. 2) I didn't read the paper, but if it is "physically forced to have sex", that is as unambiguous as it gets. Thanks for clarifying!

1) Maybe you missed the point, I agree there is pressure in both cases but the consequence is different

2) I didn't read it carefully but I ctrl-Fed to find these details

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#103

Post by AwaAwa »

roenxi wrote: post #74
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This affects 30+ year old men too. Don't dismiss it. Society does not care about male problems. Let's just label them incels or terrorists and be done with it. Also at the same time let's wonder why Andrew Tate and similar are easily getting such a huge following.

That is just factually inaccurate. Society cares a lot about male problems. Men have a legitimate complaint that public displays of misandry are tolerated far beyond what is fair, but in terms of on-the-ground outcomes it is hard to point to anything unreasonable going on. At scale anyway, the world is full of local warts. The main problem men have when it comes to medical outcomes is their absolute refusal to seek h…

Research on breast cancer is much better funded than prostate cancer. Might this serves as a hard point, in light of the higher fatality of the latter?

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#104

Post by CipherThrowaway »

Planktonne wrote: post #100
CipherThrowaway wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the lower sex drive in my relationships and experience a concomitant pressure to have sex when I don't want to. I'll often say yes to avoid a fight, avoid upsetting my partner or to stop them from nagging me. This has never seemed like a big deal to me although it is sometimes a nuisance. How does this square with your PoV? Is it rape? Maybe it doesn't count as "real" pressure? I'm not trying to minimize the i…

Your partner shouldn't be pressuring you into having sex; that's wrong of them, and you deserve better. Coerced consent isn't consent [1]; the fact that there are different levels of violence and pressure involved in some cases of coercion doesn't mean that the less-obvious levels are okay. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE

If I took this attitude then I'd be excluding myself from relationships that are a net positive in my life. Mismatched sex drive is genuinely not a big deal for me. Often we're both on the same page and that's great. But when we're not, it's not a huge deal for me to have sex I don't want just to keep the peace. In my view, it's no different to other forms of compromise and sacrifice in relationships. Furthermore I think this is common in relationships. To maintain a stable relationship, low libido partners often do have to "make an effort" and manage some of the pressure that comes from dating a higher libido partner.

IMO in an ideal world there would never be any pressure or obligation associated with any interaction. But in the real world, "okay" must have a wide enough margin to include situations that aren't ideal but are limited in terms of harm caused and moral responsibility of participants. It can't be that I am a rape victim for not wanting to hurt my partners feelings by sexually rejecting them. Some pressure is surely okay.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#105

Post by Planktonne »

CipherThrowaway wrote: post #104
Planktonne wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your partner shouldn't be pressuring you into having sex; that's wrong of them, and you deserve better. Coerced consent isn't consent [1]; the fact that there are different levels of violence and pressure involved in some cases of coercion doesn't mean that the less-obvious levels are okay. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE

If I took this attitude then I'd be excluding myself from relationships that are a net positive in my life. Mismatched sex drive is genuinely not a big deal for me. Often we're both on the same page and that's great. But when we're not, it's not a huge deal for me to have sex I don't want just to keep the peace. In my view, it's no different to other forms of compromise and sacrifice in relationships. Furthermore I t…

> not wanting to hurt my partners feelings

Is not the same as

> to avoid a fight

or

> to stop them from nagging me

There is a subtle but important difference between 'having sex for reasons other than immediate desire' and 'pressured into having sex'.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#106

Post by CipherThrowaway »

Planktonne wrote: post #105
CipherThrowaway wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I took this attitude then I'd be excluding myself from relationships that are a net positive in my life. Mismatched sex drive is genuinely not a big deal for me. Often we're both on the same page and that's great. But when we're not, it's not a huge deal for me to have sex I don't want just to keep the peace. In my view, it's no different to other forms of compromise and sacrifice in relationships. Furthermore I t…

> not wanting to hurt my partners feelings Is not the same as > to avoid a fight or > to stop them from nagging me There is a subtle but important difference between 'having sex for reasons other than immediate desire' and 'pressured into having sex'.

IME this dividing line exists more in theory than practice. Maybe your partner feeling upset or rejected leads to a fight about something unrelated the next day. Or maybe it's easier to rebuff some nagging than to deal with an insecure partner who is good with boundaries but will still feel deeply bad about the rejection.

So-called "duty sex" has been recognized as a complex topic where consent is concerned. Surely this is a continuum rather than yes/no. I can't go around calling an ex-girlfriend a rapist because she nagged me for sex now and then.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#107

Post by CatWChainsaw »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #6

How about spend less time on Instagram and TikTok and more in nature?

They're likely to bring social media with them into nature, take pictures, make remote places popular, and thus ruin them. I'm sure tourism in world-famous cities is guilty of this, but I specifically recall a sunflower field somewhere in Canada that went viral, and people would come to take pictures and leave litter everywhere.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#108

Post by caeril »

dotandgtfo wrote: post #22
jdthedisciple wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 100% with you. Parents should have the right and responsibility to monitor and regulate their children's consumption of aforementioned tools.

Yes, personal responsibility™ is the root cause here. Not corporations that have been making hyper addictive applications and maximising engagement for profit. While I don't blame anyone solely, there's lots of blame to go around - solely blaming the parents doesn't hold up. Kids are ostracized if they don't have a smartphone, don't have TikTok, and don't have YouTube. It's easy to blame the parents, but it's unreaso…

> Kids are ostracized if they don't have a smartphone

So?

I was ostracized for being into science, math, and computers in the early 90s. It sucked at the time, but at the end of the day it's better having a solid filter for who are the superficial garbage people, and who are not.

Kids are ostracized in different generations for different things. It's in our nature to be shitty to each other.

Oh, Johnny doesn't think I'm cool because I don't post vapid content on instagram? That's a win, because now I can regard Johnny as the trash that he is.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#109

Post by ChatGTP »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #97
ChatGTP wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They gave people beauty filters too.

"Beauty filters", in the form of cosmetics, have been widely used by both men and women at least since the days of ancient Egypt, 5000 years ago. Likely before... that's just the earliest record we have.

It’s not the same thing and you know this.

Plastic surgery is similar, wearing some make up is one thing, changing the structure of your face is something else.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#110

Post by TwoNineA »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #94
TwoNineA wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you blame personal responsibility for the obesity epidemic? Do you blame personal responsibility for a smoker’s lung cancer? Do you blame personal responsibility for the liver failure of an alcoholic? Do you blame personal responsibility for the Rohingya genocide? It’s easy to blame the parents when Meta creates a hyper addictive application with beauty filters for example that amplifies society’s pressure on youn…

> Do you blame personal responsibility for the Rohingya genocide? Umm.... yes? I mean, who should be blamed for a genocide other than the people who carried it out? (edited to remove unnecessary snark)

Meta had a nice helping hand in it. Maybe they should take blame too?
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