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U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

cdc.gov

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Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#71

Post by kmarc »

revelio wrote: post #64
dotandgtfo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take, I know, and sorry in advance. But I'll go so far as to say that what you're saying here is in part caused by technology, the internet and social media. Most reasonable people, and reasonable feminists (which most feminists I've met are) do sympathise with men and their issues as well. I think social media amplifies the extreme minorities voices that state that they don't care about male problems, that men a…

Reasonableness is hard to determine ahead of time, or even to define. Here's something I've seen happen. A couple of women in a corporate Slack channel says, hey CEO, what are you going to do to celebrate International Women's Day? Some dudes respond and say, cool, good idea but if we do something for that can we also celebrate International Men's Day? The women reply with angry face and eyeroll emojis before saying:…

this is the hardest of all. When it comes to men's day, indeed all day is celebration of 20% higher salaries that men receive in average.

OTOH, introducing men's day sounds fair as then everyone is treated equally (in this aspect)

I really don't know which side of this particular debate we should support more. What I'm sure is that the topic is more delicate and complicated than having a one-sentence answer to it.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#72

Post by zmgsabst »

prohobo wrote: post #41
echelon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up being told I could do anything I put my mind to. That I was responsible, to a very large degree, for my own path and making my dreams come true. I don't understand how those told that they're disadvantaged can persevere and succeed. Especially when they're told that it's the system's fault. It takes seeking out adversity, embracing and enjoying it to push ahead. If you're uncomfortable at your basal level,…

Leftists argue your mindset is a symptom of the toxic mantras of neoliberalism. It's basically a Protestant work ethic: Highly individualistic, and little sense of commonality or cooperation. Thats the reasonable argument against your ethics, in that a community or team can do things that are impossible for any individual. It's absolutely true, and can't be refuted. But that's also the trap that modern society is fal…

I view their politics as a meme prion: perhaps there’s some reasonable interpretation — as you’ve outlined here — but that’s not what they’re arguing.

For example, despite saying that they’re staunchly against bigotry, they’re defining commonality by race and sex — rather than common circumstance. That’s inherently toxic because it foments the very bigotry they (pretend to) decry: look at their proud anti-Asian racism at Harvard, using 1950s style arguments there’s “too many Asians”.

They absolutely detest the people who when viewing things through the lens of individualism, conclude that they should form partnerships with people that have aligned values, principles, and goals. After all, they’d have to admit their beliefs were a return to racial and sexual essentialism to have that realization — and they’re Good People (TM) who would never do such a thing.

One of the most important choices an individual makes is who to have “on your team” — and their entire world view is built on assigning those roles based on protected class.

I don’t think your attempt to “assuage their fears” will be met with anything but rabid anger — because we already did that and it already produced superior results. They’ve intentionally destroyed that system, as anathema.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#73

Post by dotandgtfo »

revelio wrote: post #64
dotandgtfo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take, I know, and sorry in advance. But I'll go so far as to say that what you're saying here is in part caused by technology, the internet and social media. Most reasonable people, and reasonable feminists (which most feminists I've met are) do sympathise with men and their issues as well. I think social media amplifies the extreme minorities voices that state that they don't care about male problems, that men a…

Reasonableness is hard to determine ahead of time, or even to define. Here's something I've seen happen. A couple of women in a corporate Slack channel says, hey CEO, what are you going to do to celebrate International Women's Day? Some dudes respond and say, cool, good idea but if we do something for that can we also celebrate International Men's Day? The women reply with angry face and eyeroll emojis before saying:…

Not celebrating international mens day isn't a problem (although I bet some may disagree with me). It's kind of a political take in the same vein as "Black Lives Matter" vs. the counter "White Lives Matter".

Jumping into these "reactionary" mens rights positions as a counter to feminist issues is the wrong way to do it and understandably makes people a bit angry. Just as in if real life someone is telling you about an issue - countering with a "buuut, group Y has it bad too..." would probably make someone double take a bit. It's unproductive, but normal on social media because it's engaging and creates a hot comment section.

In my opinion some major male problems are related to:

* Mental health, suicide and the lack of services and support for men.

* How the education system works better for females than males.

* How platonic relationships with males have been systemetically decreasing.

* How in rural societies women are more likely to move to the cities and get an education leading to men having way less romantic options.

If you bring these topics up with women they'll probably sympathise and maybe also agree that these are issues that our society should be assisting with solving. How it should be "solved" may be up for debate. But framing it as a counter position to the feminist movement isn't the right way to do it. But very normalised online, which feeds into my point of the internet exaggerating issues as most debates you see online is controversial by design of the algorithms and content creators trying to get engagement.

Disclaimer: I'm from Norway, which gives some context. But I think these issues are pretty common across the westernized world.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#74

Post by roenxi »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #54
kmarc wrote: post #45

Look around you and observe your friends, family, colleagues, or a significant other, but really: any adults. This is not only affecting "teen girls", and certainly not only US people. We need more research on this without "teen girls" in the clickbait titles. This affects everyone. It affected the person of my romantic interest and I had to break up at the end. This affects 30+ year old men too. Don't dismiss it. Be…

> This affects 30+ year old men too. Don't dismiss it. Society does not care about male problems. Let's just label them incels or terrorists and be done with it. Also at the same time let's wonder why Andrew Tate and similar are easily getting such a huge following.

That is just factually inaccurate. Society cares a lot about male problems. Men have a legitimate complaint that public displays of misandry are tolerated far beyond what is fair, but in terms of on-the-ground outcomes it is hard to point to anything unreasonable going on. At scale anyway, the world is full of local warts.

The main problem men have when it comes to medical outcomes is their absolute refusal to seek help. I can name multiple men I know who died or came close to it because they refused to see a doctor. I intend to go out the same way, for what it is worth. Seems likely that attitude carries over to mental health.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#75

Post by majikaja »

whstl wrote: post #59
fafqg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree that this is Meta's fault. They gave females a window to the world and that made them depressed. Does this mean Meta should just close shop? Are they responsible for the mental health of their users?

I love how everyone here is blaming something different: parents, Meta, advertisement, political divisiveness, urban planning, society, lack of personal responsibility. Soon there will be more reasons, like violence and money. And they're right, sure. All of those are partially responsible. But I feel we tend to give a pass to the people who are actually producing the content that is damaging a generation and making…

Remind me who has majority voting power at Meta

I wonder if the guy cares about anything in the world other than his rich list position and VR. Certainly not the 'dumb f**' users.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#76

Post by zmgsabst »

hotpotamus wrote: post #67
echelon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up being told I could do anything I put my mind to. That I was responsible, to a very large degree, for my own path and making my dreams come true. I don't understand how those told that they're disadvantaged can persevere and succeed. Especially when they're told that it's the system's fault. It takes seeking out adversity, embracing and enjoying it to push ahead. If you're uncomfortable at your basal level,…

What if you were born with an IQ of 85?

That sucks.

But the problems of that are not due to skin pigmentation or genital structure — it’s the fact intelligence is necessary for many tasks.

And you’re still best served by focusing on how to improve your individual circumstance, especially compared to blaming those unrelated factors.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#77

Post by orwin »

lelanthran wrote: post #55
egeozcan wrote: post #10

> More than 1 in 10 (14%) had ever been forced to have sex 14% of all the teenage girls are raped? How is this possible? I'm really not the one to grab the pitchfork first for sure but this... I don't know... How are we okay with this?

It's probably based on the same flawed study I saw recently, which asked about sexual molesting, grouped "creepy staring" and "unwanted advances" into the same group and then reported it all as rape.

You can find the asked questions in the very first link of the article.

It's way better than just saying "It's probably the same study they've talked about on TV!" and you can really tell "I've done my own research!" without lying.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#78

Post by revelio »

kmarc wrote: post #71
revelio wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasonableness is hard to determine ahead of time, or even to define. Here's something I've seen happen. A couple of women in a corporate Slack channel says, hey CEO, what are you going to do to celebrate International Women's Day? Some dudes respond and say, cool, good idea but if we do something for that can we also celebrate International Men's Day? The women reply with angry face and eyeroll emojis before saying:…

this is the hardest of all. When it comes to men's day, indeed all day is celebration of 20% higher salaries that men receive in average. OTOH, introducing men's day sounds fair as then everyone is treated equally (in this aspect) I really don't know which side of this particular debate we should support more. What I'm sure is that the topic is more delicate and complicated than having a one-sentence answer to it.

See, this is exactly what we're talking about.

Firstly, every day is clearly not a celebration of men. This is exactly the same lie that the feminists pushed in the Slack channel. A "celebration" has lots of very specific aspects to it, for example they wanted the company doing public announcements, praising female employees (for existing, more or less), talking about how important it is to hire more women and so on.

Secondly, men don't receive higher salaries when controlling for the work done and age. When you control for those things women now earn higher salaries, reflecting feminist biases in hiring. This insistence that work and motherhood should be ignored is also a feminist meme that's been repeatedly debunked since the 1980s. It never goes away because if feminists were to accept this, they'd have to also concede that different choices lead to different outcomes, that men and women make different choices, and therefore that disparate outcomes is not oppression. And that would undermine the whole premise of feminist ideology. So feminists can never be honest about salaries, if they were, they'd no longer be feminists.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#79

Post by TwoNineA »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #15
prohobo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teens don't know about this and it's unfair to expect them to. For them Insta and TikTok are part of social life, and basically necessary. Parents are obviously to blame; most are ambivalent or enmeshed in social media themselves. Their communities are to blame as well. I wonder, do schools ever address these issues? Or do they just tell kids to put down their phones in class?

I am 100% with you. Parents should have the right and responsibility to monitor and regulate their children's consumption of aforementioned tools.

Do you blame personal responsibility for the obesity epidemic?

Do you blame personal responsibility for a smoker’s lung cancer?

Do you blame personal responsibility for the liver failure of an alcoholic?

Do you blame personal responsibility for the Rohingya genocide?

It’s easy to blame the parents when Meta creates a hyper addictive application with beauty filters for example that amplifies society’s pressure on young girls to be of a certain pre-determined “norm”.

The issues young girls are facing go far beyond the extremely narrow view of “it’s the parent’s fault”.

Re: U.S. Teen Girls Experiencing Increased Sadness and Violence

#80

Post by hotpotamus »

zmgsabst wrote: post #76
hotpotamus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you were born with an IQ of 85?

That sucks. But the problems of that are not due to skin pigmentation or genital structure — it’s the fact intelligence is necessary for many tasks. And you’re still best served by focusing on how to improve your individual circumstance, especially compared to blaming those unrelated factors.

Do you think such a person can do anything they put their mind to? Also I don't know where skin pigmentation came into this though I'll admit I didn't read the article - does it say something about differential racial effects?
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