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New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

nytimes.com

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Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#761

Post by bombcar »

ineedasername wrote: post #535
engineer_22 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>If you're unhappy, make different choices. This sentiment is often on display here and alway out of touch with reality. Plenty of people will never have the right opportunities, no matter their effort, to make any choice they want to put themselves in any social/wealth class of their choice. This sentiment is the modern equivalent of "let them eat cake".

It may be quite difficult to change your social/wealth class, but the ability to change your location in the USA is among the highest in the world.

But there are other costs associated with that, especially for those with family/support network in an area.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#762

Post by williamcotton »

As someone who worked professionally as a line cook in my younger years the benefits of cooking over a flame are primarily in fine and quick control over temperature. Moving the pan, lifting the pan, adjusting the temperature, etc, are key to a good number of dishes. You lose that fine-grained control with the various electric stovetops.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#763

Post by bombcar »

boplicity wrote: post #590
iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

> This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. 27 years from now, when we're supposedly going to be "net zero", do we really want to be supporting a bunch of natural gas infrastructure? Or should we start making that expensive infrastructure not necessary? 1. Most homes built now will be around in 27 years, and still in good shape. 2. Building and maintaining natural gas infra…

I'm sure we can find cities/new developments where gas lines were not run, but have we examples where existing infrastructure was finally shut down?

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#764

Post by bluGill »

lostlogin wrote: post #663
collegeburner wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i just looked on home depot dot com gas ranges: $949, $848, $676. boujee model is $1199 induction ranges: $1198 starting, $4138, $1848, $1598, $2498 plus i can't use my nice copper diffuser with them :( nah, imma stick to gas :)

So many people have seperate hob/oven? This is the more common arrangement where I am and the price difference are much smaller.

The majority have the all in one. The separates is not uncommon by any means, but it isn't what the majority have.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#765

Post by pclmulqdq »

HWR_14 wrote: post #699
pclmulqdq wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we go after the coal power plants first? Or allow nuclear reactors on shipping vessels? Both of those will have 1000x more benefit than paper straws and electric stoves, whose benefits are questionable at best. There's plenty of lower-hanging fruit to go after.

I'm not sure how you can credibly claim your goal is to minimize "headache and inconvenience" and then suggest replacing large parts of infrastructure as opposed to just adding new building codes for future developments that require no work. Meanwhile, the obvious consequences for nuclear reactors on shipping vessels will be radioactive debris spreading terrorist attacks.

Let's just change shipbuilding emissions codes to require future ships to be 0 emissions by 2027. By your logic, that requires no work.

Also, you may need to learn more about modern nuclear technology. Shipboard nuclear reactors these days are very safe, and there are plenty of available reactor technologies out there that are impossible to turn into bombs.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#766

Post by bombcar »

MattRix wrote: post #648
iamdamian wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but this regulation targets everyone in the state of New York, not just renters, and the research I've read seems to indicate that fume hoods protect against this indoor pollution.

I remember seeing a stufy fairly recent that discovered that they actually weren’t very effective, especially if you use the front burners. My intuition about it is that if you can smell the food, you’re probably also getting air pollution. On top of that I’m not sure if anyone has studied what percentage of people actually turn their fume hoods on, because I bet that is low too.

Most stoves have that microwave/vent thing above them, and that is NOT a fume hood, it's a poor approximation of an attempt at venting.

A true fume hood overhangs the front of the stove and can be heard when turned on, and requires makeup air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSIqKGsF2ZA

(Note that a proper ventilation system is recommended for ANY stove/cooking besides maybe a microwave/pressure cooker, but especially needed for gas)

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#767

Post by bombcar »

brewdad wrote: post #636
dmix wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make banning suddenly better because regulation/codes are so broken.

Yes it does. Unless you think reforming regulators will somehow be easier.

Banning turns enforcement from a "is this gas stove properly vented, when inspected before either are installed" to a "is that a gas hookup for this building? wtf"

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#768

Post by kllrnohj »

nemo44x wrote: post #512
kibwen wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternatives to gas are so good these days that there's no way I'd pay to connect any new house to gas.

Gas alliances are significantly cheaper to run. Also perform better. Gas dryers are awesome compared to electric for example. Plus electric goes out often. Gas doesn’t.

> Plus electric goes out often. Gas doesn’t.

That's because when gas lines fail, which they obviously do, they leak instead. And leaking natural gas into the air of densely populated areas is of course a bad idea.

And since those leaks are just small pressure drops and everything keeps "working" there's much less urgency or incentive to fix it. Unlike circuit breakers & other protective circuits that cut power which prompts immediate action to correct.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#769

Post by kerkeslager »

iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

> But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all.

[Citation needed]

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#770

Post by kllrnohj »

SoftTalker wrote: post #424
cogman10 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more reasons to ban gas in buildings than just global warming. There's the fact that you are actually burning fuel, which released noxious fumes into the home [1]. There's mounting evidence that this sort of exposure has pretty negative health implications [2] Gas is also inherently dangerous, more-so than electricity. There's been more than a few examples of exploded homes/buildings due to gas leaks [3]. A…

How many homes have burned down because of faulty wiring for electric stoves vs the number that have exploded due to leaking gas stoves?

GFCI was already made mandatory in all kitchens nationally. The 2023 code updates expanded and strengthened the requirements here
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