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New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

nytimes.com

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Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#31

Post by im3w1l »

orra wrote: post #28
jrockway wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bigger problem is getting a feed to your house that can handle your hot water heater, stove, washing machine, and electric car charging all at once. That's rather impractical in some areas, so there is some work to coordinate between the appliances so they can share a smaller feed. The way some stoves are participating is that they charge a battery at relatively low current all the time, and then cook from the batt…

> If that's your contingency plan, check that a safety valve doesn't close when power is lost. And for good reason. Gas cookers require ventilation, to prevent carbon monoxide build up. An electric extractor fan won't work during a power cut.

Well you could open a window.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#32

Post by smileysteve »

john_shafthair wrote: post #10
tombert wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't modern heat pumps work even in crazy cold climates now? I seem to remember seeing that some are rated for -20F nowadays.

Not when the power's out for days - as often happens in winter storms. You can run the blower and electronics of a natural gas furnace or boiler off a little camping generator for a week or even better a natural gas whole house unit in perpetuity. So you don't, you know, freeze to death.

If you take the investment that is the infrastructure for gas lines (all underground) and do similar for most electricity then storms don't take out electricity and people don't die.

Best of all, the total investment and maintenance actually decreases.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#33

Post by cmpalmer52 »

I write software for natural gas utility management and maintenance. Between this and coding AIs, I’m glad I’m approaching retirement age.

Of course, new government regulations (not outright bans) are a lot of what drives the need for our software.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#35

Post by rayiner »

lesuorac wrote: post #18
rayiner wrote: post #17

And NPR told me that the possibility of gas stoves being banned was fake outrage: https://www.npr.org/2023/01/20/1150228734/the-facts-and-stra... .

> And NPR told me that the possibility of gas stoves being banned was fake outrage: https://www.npr.org/2023/01/20/1150228734/the-facts-and-stra... No they didn't. > MARTÍNEZ: Look, Jeff and Lisa, I don't know what's going to happen with gas stoves. Also NPR was talking about the Federal government. While the article above is talking about the New York _State_ government.

Why are you ignoring the title and first paragraph?

> The facts and strategy behind the outrage over rumors of a ban on gas stoves

> The conservative media was in uproar last week over speculation that the federal government planned to ban gas cooking stoves and possibly seize them.

The aim is clearly to dismiss the concern as manufactured outrage—note the words “strategy,” “speculation,” and “outrage”—rather than a concern about something that may happen because it’s an aim liberals definitely have.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#36

Post by osigurdson »

john_shafthair wrote: post #14
tamaharbor wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the backup, resistance heating?

Electric resistance heat is super inefficient. That's why it's often referred to as "emergency heat". Ironically the best combo is a heat pump + natural gas furnace as a backup. Best of both worlds. But here we are making those illegal so we can pretend to save the planet.

>> Electric resistance heat is super inefficient

I know what you mean but it is actually nearly 100% efficient. The inefficient part is converting high entropy heat to low entropy electricity.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#37

Post by SigmundA »

jrockway wrote: post #24
someonehere wrote: post #22

Berkeley attempted this and it was recently overturned: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/court-overturns-berkeley-califo... California's electric grid is in horrendous shape. We can barely keep the power on in the summertime, especially when wildfires happen. When the power is out, am I expected to start a fire in my yard to cook food? Fire up my JetBoil? My BBQ?

A bigger problem is getting a feed to your house that can handle your hot water heater, stove, washing machine, and electric car charging all at once. That's rather impractical in some areas, so there is some work to coordinate between the appliances so they can share a smaller feed. The way some stoves are participating is that they charge a battery at relatively low current all the time, and then cook from the batt…

Worst case at 240v :

Electric hot water heater = 20 amps

Electric stove = 50 amps all burners on and oven

Washing machine = 15 amps

Car charger = 50 amps

Total = 135 amps

Standard residential service in the US = 200 amps split phase @ 240v

Whats the problem?

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#40

Post by tomohawk »

smileysteve wrote: post #32
john_shafthair wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not when the power's out for days - as often happens in winter storms. You can run the blower and electronics of a natural gas furnace or boiler off a little camping generator for a week or even better a natural gas whole house unit in perpetuity. So you don't, you know, freeze to death.

If you take the investment that is the infrastructure for gas lines (all underground) and do similar for most electricity then storms don't take out electricity and people don't die. Best of all, the total investment and maintenance actually decreases.

How about you get that done first, prove that its at least as reliable, and then start banning things?
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