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Upward Farms throws in towel ten years after founding vertical-farming business

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Re: Upward Farms throws in towel ten years after founding vertical-farming business

#191

Post by abakker »

Alupis wrote: post #158
abakker wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because fixing things costs money. Even when it saves money. Money is the catalyst that allows anything to happen, and not enough people have enough of it to turn good ideas into good designs into good products.

And flying to another planet that happens to be completely inhospitable is somehow cheaper or easier? When you realize there are no hospitable planets, besides earth, within our solar system - you will realize there is no escaping the problems we have created here on earth. No, they must be solved, not avoided. There is no future where any of us alive today, or for many, many generations (dozens, maybe hundreds or th…

That wasn't the comparison I was making. For the record, I'm all for fixing problems, but the OP asked why they were not being solved, so...yeah, money. is it a satisfying and good answer? no. Is it enough of the answer to have explanatory value, I think so.

Re: Upward Farms throws in towel ten years after founding vertical-farming business

#192

Post by Timon3 »

kube-system wrote: post #184
Timon3 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Care to elaborate what you mean? My non-American interpretation of the use of fascism in this sense is relating to: - taking away rights (e.g. abortion, and please don't argue technicalities) - banning medical intervention which provably increases quality of life and decreases likelihood of self-harm - suppressing dissident literature (e.g. recent "temporary" bans of books on Rosa Parks) - lowering the threshold of…

You're got it backwards, that's the " urban America interpretation of fascism".

I think I know where I come from better than you, and it is my interpretation.

Re: Upward Farms throws in towel ten years after founding vertical-farming business

#193

Post by kube-system »

Timon3 wrote: post #192
kube-system wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're got it backwards, that's the " urban America interpretation of fascism".

I think I know where I come from better than you, and it is my interpretation.

I respect that you have your own interpretation. I think you might have either misunderstood what the person above was trying to say, or maybe you may not consume much US conservative media.

Rural America leans toward conservative values, and from their point of view, the things conservative Americans would call "fascist" in today's political climate are things like:

- restrictions on gun rights

- institutions being required to cater marginalized social groups that they do not see as relevant to their communities

- required separations of church and state

- some contemporary public health requirements

- policies that disadvantage status-quo rural employers

Re: Upward Farms throws in towel ten years after founding vertical-farming business

#194

Post by eli_gottlieb »

hosh wrote: post #166
kdmccormick wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I don't like how you're going after urban living. I can rewrite what you've written, but from an urbanist perspective regarding transportation sustainability: Rural living has taken people away from one another, so there is an illusion that we don't have to pay the true costs of travel. People growing up in towns expect cars and on-demand access to roads and gasoline and…

People get attached to things, including urban living. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with rewriting it from the perspective of travel. That is pretty much how I feel about travel and transport infrastructure too. Some cultures attach a lot of importance on travel, associating it with freedom, or mobility (both in the literal sense, and as a metaphor for class mobility). Don’t get me wrong, I love to…

>I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with rewriting it from the perspective of travel. That is pretty much how I feel about travel and transport infrastructure too.

Then you're just a pastoralist and likely a Malthusian, not talking about ecological sustainability at all.

Re: Upward Farms throws in towel ten years after founding vertical-farming business

#195

Post by namdnay »

claudiulodro wrote: post #186
asdfman123 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Centralized state control has no obligation to the environment either.

I don't think they said it did? There are many more social systems out there than simply US-Style Capitalism and Soviet-style Communism. Something like Anarcho-primitivism is one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism

Out there where? In the real world, or in someone’s imagination?

It’s like someone saying “java projects get too messy when there are hundreds of developers on them , this new language I’ve invented will be much better, trust me”

Re: Upward Farms throws in towel ten years after founding vertical-farming business

#197

Post by asdfman123 »

namdnay wrote: post #195
claudiulodro wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they said it did? There are many more social systems out there than simply US-Style Capitalism and Soviet-style Communism. Something like Anarcho-primitivism is one example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism

Out there where? In the real world, or in someone’s imagination? It’s like someone saying “java projects get too messy when there are hundreds of developers on them , this new language I’ve invented will be much better, trust me”

If you just give my group absolute power, everything will improve.

Re: Upward Farms throws in towel ten years after founding vertical-farming business

#198

Post by kdmccormick »

hosh wrote: post #166
kdmccormick wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I don't like how you're going after urban living. I can rewrite what you've written, but from an urbanist perspective regarding transportation sustainability: Rural living has taken people away from one another, so there is an illusion that we don't have to pay the true costs of travel. People growing up in towns expect cars and on-demand access to roads and gasoline and…

People get attached to things, including urban living. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with rewriting it from the perspective of travel. That is pretty much how I feel about travel and transport infrastructure too. Some cultures attach a lot of importance on travel, associating it with freedom, or mobility (both in the literal sense, and as a metaphor for class mobility). Don’t get me wrong, I love to…

I trying to point out that urban doesn't imply disconnected from ecology, jusy like rural doesn't imply connected to ecology.

Walking around my extremely dense city, I see plenty of people growing their own food in their little yards, probably more than I see back in my semirural hometown.

For a while I subscribed to a vegan food delivery service. The food is grown a few towns away and delivered daily by cyclists. There is nothing like that back in my hometown; I'd have to do HelloFresh or something.

Re: Upward Farms throws in towel ten years after founding vertical-farming business

#199

Post by dsfyu404ed »

kiba wrote: post #176
hosh wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get attached to things, including urban living. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with rewriting it from the perspective of travel. That is pretty much how I feel about travel and transport infrastructure too. Some cultures attach a lot of importance on travel, associating it with freedom, or mobility (both in the literal sense, and as a metaphor for class mobility). Don’t get me wrong, I love to…

Urban living is more sustainable than living in suburban sprawl. Spreading humans around and reducing our density isn't going to make it more sustainable.

[dead]

Re: Upward Farms throws in towel ten years after founding vertical-farming business

#200

Post by jjeaff »

hosh wrote: post #143
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key thing people don’t realize or understand is that hardly any agriculture is sustainable, and even less is restorative. Permaculture is extremely interesting because of that. The challenge is finding ways to harvest food reliably and at any meaningful scale.

I think nothing will work without some kind of change to the way of life. Urban living has taken people away from the land, so there is this illusion that we don’t have to participate in the ecology. Like water infrastructure, people growing up in cities expect food-on-demand … if you have the money for it. The idea that if you want to eat an apple means going into the back yard and picking one off the tree is an ali…

I don't think it is "urban living" so much as just modern living. While people in rural and suburban areas are more likely to have some form of exposure to locally grown produce, they still for the most part live in the same kind of economy as urban areas. I currently live in a suburb surrounded by strawberry farms, avocados, etc. And our grocery stores are just as likely to have strawberries and avocadoes from Mexico.

People in rural areas like where I grew up, might be more likely to have a garden, but most don't, and they still get most of their calories from the grocery store. I grew up on a cattle ranch and while that might give me more "connection" to my food, we still bought a lot of our beef at the grocery store because finishing and butchering a cow is expensive and time consuming and requires lots of long term freezer storage. Today's modern rural family is pretty similar to an urban one except they drive a lot farther to do anything.

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