Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#251

Post by kube-system » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 6:03 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #246

kube-system wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the market will often move in the direction of the delta between expectations and actual results. People often assume it "should" move in the direction of the overall sentiment (good earnings = up, bad earnings = down), but that is not at all true because earnings reports are a retroactive view of information people have already been trading on.

Well, in this case, isn't it still that simple? Actual results came in better than expectations (hence the "delta" you are referring to) What metric did Intel beat on? This quarter EPS/revenue/some metric/growth? Or guidance for upcoming quarter less bad than expected? All it takes is one or two "good" things and everything else with "in line as bad as expected", as you know.

We don’t know what expectation they beat, because traders expectations are not a monolith, nor are they public figures.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#252

Post by whstl » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 6:15 PM UTC

jgwil2 wrote: post #196

whstl wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I still have the same, 2012 11" Air, and it's my "travel" laptop. It had a battery replacement a few years ago (and Apple did for free!), but other than being a Netflix machine, I still code low-level stuff and frontend in it.

How'd you get Apple to replace it for free? I thought all coverage would have expired...

It was in 2018, so after only six years. Five years ago, time flies... And the battery was swollen up, it actually damaged the trackpad. I went to the store to get an estimate, but they said they'd do it for free.

I wonder if it was a recall. I didn't speak German that well back then so it might have gotten lost in translation. I recently also had issues with my Airpods Pro and they replaced for free, but they told me it was a recall.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#253

Post by 29athrowaway » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 6:19 PM UTC

j_walter wrote: post #229

29athrowaway wrote: post #125

Intel gets MBAed.

This is absolutely what happens when bean counters are promoted to CEO...they killed Intel a long time ago. Finally put an engineering guy in charge, but he is blowing smoke up investors asses...you can't dump billions in new fabs and technology while also losing billions per quarter. Their foundry business is dead...they won't compete with Samsung and TSMC. Even GF found that was a losing proposition and they had a…

They boost the share price for a while, but then the competition takes over. Leadership get rich.

Steve Jobs has the best explanation for this. https://youtu.be/P4VBqTViEx4

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#254

Post by Clamchop » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:15 PM UTC

steveBK123 wrote: post #111

jl6 wrote: post #50

I find it kind of amazing that Intel haven't found a way to profit during the global chip shortage. Look at food and energy over the past year or so: supermarket and oil & gas companies are posting record profits. They are riding the wave of price rises and supply constraints. What's different about CPUs?

They missed the boat on 2 biggest growth areas: ARM (mobile) & GPU (gaming, crypto, AI), and screwed up x86 (AMD made some better chips / Apple walked away). Screwing 1 of those up is a problem, screwing up all 3 simultaneously is near-bankrupting.

As a casual observer, Intel seems to have commitment issues. It's not like they haven't made or are not making attempts in some of these markets but they can seem half-hearted even when those ventures aren't mothballed or sold off outright.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#255

Post by windowsrookie » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:17 PM UTC

philistine wrote: post #247

rektide wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To their credit, the gpu drivers have continued getting much much better, much faster. Intel has long understood the value of drivers, has been one of the primary contributors & drivers of really good open source (albeit with some frustrating areas of sore neglect, like GMA500/Poulso) (But also rip the incredible http://01.org those folks were amazing at finding high value open source work to do!). Im glad to see mak…

One could conceivably assume that they're talking to Sony and Microsoft about putting their GPUs in their next consoles. I'm not sure Microsoft would bite for compatibility reasons but Sony seems ready to make another blunder.

It's possible, but AMD has supplied console APUs for two generations now because they are willing to sell them for cheap. Intel has never been interested in low-margin items, but they may need to be in the future. AMD has really targeted the gaming APU market. They make the chips for the Playstation, Xbox, and Steam deck. They also recently announced a new chip for gaming handhelds that Asus is using in their new ROG Ally device.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#256

Post by kazen44 » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:19 PM UTC

darth_avocado wrote: post #191

bane wrote: post #116

Intel and Google share surprisingly similar problems: an almost pathological inability to grow lines of business with new products because they kill them off too early. In Intel's case, it's even worse, they kill them off right before the market would have made them successful. They should own the "things with semiconductors" market, but instead financially engineered their way to focus only on higher profit core chi…

> but instead financially engineered their way to focus only on higher profit You explained the core of the problem that usually gets little blame. Successful companies get infiltrated by Wall Street MBA types who make decisions for the short term to manipulate the stock price because their own compensation structures help encourage that behavior. Companies, especially like Intel should be built for being resilient o…

Bert Hubert had an excellent talk which exactly describes the problem of this phenomenon[0].

[0]: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/how-tech-loses-out/

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#257

Post by kazen44 » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:22 PM UTC

sidewndr46 wrote: post #250

bane wrote: post #116

Intel and Google share surprisingly similar problems: an almost pathological inability to grow lines of business with new products because they kill them off too early. In Intel's case, it's even worse, they kill them off right before the market would have made them successful. They should own the "things with semiconductors" market, but instead financially engineered their way to focus only on higher profit core chi…

ARC GPUs are basically dead on launch. It's not competitive in any way and fundamentally broken upon release. Intel integrated graphics works because it's a value-add to an expensive component already necessary for many computing products. ARC GPUs is basically Intel expecting the market to be the beta tester for a very expensive & inferior product.

very expensive product?

have you seen GPU prices lately? The intel a770 is quite a good deal, especially considering you get 16GB of vram when the competitors only offer this at a far higher price. I kind of agree with you that the product has had issues at launch, a lot of them are resolved however. Also, linux support is superb compared to nvidia.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#258

Post by unregistereddev » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:50 PM UTC

coffeebeqn wrote: post #14

sokoloff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy an M1 8/256 Air at $800 right now. I'd expect to get 5 years out of it minimum (we're buying one shortly to replace a mid-2013 Air). That's less than $15/month if it gets thrown in a bin in 5 years. It's under $20/mo if we bin it in 3.5 years. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/macbook-air-13-3-laptop-apple-m... I feel like the Chromebook on the lower end is great for a lot of uses/people and the Air is an easi…

8GB is pretty sad though and it’s soldered on with no ability to upgrade

Agreed. My personal laptop has 8GB of ram. It's fine for web browsing, sorta usable-ish for light development, but limiting for power use.

I bought my laptop in 2015. This underscores your point: Buy something upgradable with decent specs and you'll get a lot more bang for your buck.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#259

Post by the_overseer » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 8:24 PM UTC

surgical_fire wrote: post #85

bearjaws wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and has a GPU I can use to play with StableDiffusion. You can run stable diffusion faster on a M1 pro macbook pro than on a 1080ti 3900x desktop. DiffusionBee, I get .7s/iteration on a M1 using just 45w of power vs .98s/iteration on my 1080ti using over 5x that amount of power... I could upgrade to a 4080 and I am sure it would destroy it, but I doubt your laptop has a full power 4080 anyway. > But 99% of the time…

> You can run stable diffusion faster on a M1 pro macbook pro than on a 1080ti 3900x desktop. DiffusionBee, I get .7s/iteration on a M1 using just 45w of power vs .98s/iteration on my 1080ti using over 5x that amount of power... At what cost? > I could upgrade to a 4080 and I am sure it would destroy it, but I doubt your laptop has a full power 4080 anyway. Mine has a GeForce 2060 RTX. Not in any way overpowered, but…

What exactly is so wrong with macOS? It's unix at the end of the day...

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#260

Post by mschild » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 8:25 PM UTC

0zemp2c wrote: post #208

mschild wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats an incredibly privileged view on this. The world doesn't run high paying western salaries. Most people earn significantly less. The average monthly indian salary, by now the largest country in the world population wise, is roundabout 450 USD. Your advice boils down to just get richer and don't be poor.

> Thats an incredibly privileged view on this. The world doesn't run high paying western salaries but that hurts Intel too...their profit margins are in their high-end CPUs people keep talking about the cost of Macs but they're cheaper than most Windows laptops... go look at the HP, Lenovo sites...they're not steering people toward $400 laptops

Not massively advertising low cost options and not having any at all are wildly different things.

Of course companies push the items with the highest margins. They want to make money after all, but they still have plenty of options in the sub 600 category that will last 5+ years under normal use without issue. There's obviously a market for low priced laptops, otherwise so many companies wouldn't build them. And it doesn't hurt Intel. If the choice for them is to sell a low margin CPU or none at all, they're gonna sell the low margin CPU.