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Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

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Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#221

Post by bombcar »

DonHopkins wrote: post #78
medstrom wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you built a rope-bridge, I'm sure people would beware of cramming it. Maybe it's possible to build designs that discourage. Where are you from? I haven't seen an "annoyingly narrow" ped/cycle bridge in Sweden or Belgium.

>If you built a rope-bridge, I'm sure people would beware of cramming it. You're not American or British, ehe? ;)

Or many other countries, I've seen enough video of bridge collapses to know that if people CAN cram on it, at some point they WILL cram on it.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#222

Post by bombcar »

earthnail wrote: post #108
ghaff wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand that comment. "Well, yeah, the bridge collapsed but it was an exceptional case. It worked fine for typical daily use."

Here is how I understand the comment: We have a car bridge designed to withstand exceptional load, and a pedestrian bridge designed to withstand exceptional load. The commenter assumes that on average, the car bridge's load is much closer to it's maximum load than the pedestrian bridge's load, and in consequence, the average wear on the car bridge should be higher than on the pedestrian bridge. As such, the pedestria…

It probably is not correct, because the pedestrian bridge max load is probably something like "what if an idiot drove a car down it" whereas the car bridge max load is "what if it was full of very heavy trucks and one burst into flame".

You also have to take failure modes into account, and how degraded the bridge can get before it's "unsafe".

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#223

Post by tyfon »

ubercore wrote: post #110
DeathArrow wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there are places in Europe where it rains more than in UK?

Welcome to western Norway. Bring a raincoat!

Not just a raincoat, I've had snow, sunny summer, storm gusts, hail and rain on the same day just this week, I'm int he SW though not entirely west.

I remember one time a few years back when I lived in Stavanger, I went to the post office in the city center there in a bright nice summer day and came out to torrential rain and rivers in the street!

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#224

Post by bombcar »

goodpoint wrote: post #99
wiredfool wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, not exactly. Pedestrians are heavier than cars in terms of pounds per square foot. Bridges are designed for extreme loads, including pessimistic pattern loading, and the requirements for pedestrian bridges aren’t any less safety critical. (edit: I designed this bridge: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.597616,-122.3297804,3a,75y,7... )

> Bridges are designed for extreme loads, including pessimistic pattern loading, and the requirements for pedestrian bridges aren’t any less safety critical. In terms of maximum load you are right, but wear and tear is completely different. Trucks are terrible, pedestrians and bikes have zero impact.

> Trucks are terrible, pedestrians and bikes have zero impact.

Truck loading is very large, but pedestrians do have a non-zero impact - look at the solid marble steps of ancient buildings, for example.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#225

Post by bombcar »

cassianoleal wrote: post #153
Reason077 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, London needs more pedestrian/cycle options to cross the Thames - it’s a huge barrier in some areas. For example, a tunnel (or bridge!) between Canary Wharf and the Rotherhithe peninsula, replacing the existing passenger ferry, would have huge economic benefits by encouraging development of a relatively under-developed area. The Greenwich foot tunnel is a great asset, and despite not being very cycle-friendly is…

To cross the river in East London you have 2 options: the Greenwich foot tunnel, or the Woolwich one. Indeed they're great assets but it's incredibly awful when the lifts are broken - and it happens frequently. Either of them are a huge diversion depending on where you're going as well. If there was a cycle-friendly crossing around where Blackwall tunnel is, I reckon my rides to The Reach would be cut by nearly half.

How busy is the river traffic in East London? If it's not incredibly busy you'd think some sort of movable bridge would be doable.

A permanent structure has to go down really far, or up really far, neither of which is that desirable for walking/bikes.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#226

Post by bombcar »

jtr1 wrote: post #199
wunderland wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The civil society groups and local governments that advocate for this sort of thing exist in the US too. What Norway doesn't have (and much of Europe) is a powerful auto lobby that has prevented this sort of infrastructure for decades and forced cities to be built in giant suburban sprawls.

I’m well aware those groups. I’m asking about solutions here.

In my experience in the US, every bike trail/walking trail success has been local; a local group in the area that can benefit from it, getting support from businesses and people in the community and working with the local government.

They sell it as an "option" not as "let's ban all cars" which helps people either support or ignore it, instead of being opposed. Often they work for years, talking to the railroads (lots of these are rail conversions, see https://www.railstotrails.org/policy/ ), etc. They work on plans that slowly take shape (for example, widening sidewalks when they're replaced, modifying roads when replaced, etc). After 10 to 20 years, it all starts coming together.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#227

Post by bombcar »

Macha wrote: post #189
CalRobert wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything must be about increasing profits, but being responsible with the public purse to the benefit of all is a worthy goal. Of course, if you do that you quickly find many car-oriented projects shouldn't have been built in the first place. Also: * It is unkind and unhelpful need to make personal attacks based on the poster's national origin or religion. * A Catholicism-oriented email provider doesn't mean th…

> * A Catholicism-oriented email provider doesn't mean they're from the US. For instance, they might live in Ireland, another country with horrifically bad urban design and a lot of Catholic people I'm sure you're aware since you live here, but for the benefit of other HN users, Catholics in Ireland and Catholics as perceived by US media are quite different. US media perceives Catholics as one of the more conservativ…

And to top it off, people come from families and may be using the family email server/setup because it's easier/cheaper than switching.

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#228

Post by bombcar »

rob74 wrote: post #40
biomene wrote: post #2

It's the escape tunnel for a tram tunnel with an extra coat of paint: https://www.lifeinnorway.net/bergen-cycle-tunnel/

Strange, I have never heard of a separate escape tunnel for a tram tunnel. Even German U-Bahn/S-Bahn (which I am most familiar with) tunnels usually just have a walkway beside the tracks that leads to the next station or emergency exit. But I guess that also depends on length between possible stations/exits, or it's due to newer regulations, or maybe it was a "mixed calculation" ("if we build a separate tunnel, it's…

It depends on the length of the tunnel, the traffic in the tunnel, and various other requirements.

Older tunnels the "walk away from the dead train" option was heavily used; but more often now they try to deal with "get away from the horribly burning dead train that will suffocate everyone".

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#229

Post by bombcar »

cyclecount wrote: post #172
jeffbee wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean that 200k is a particularly bad size of U.S. city? There are certainly smaller cities that have _some_ accommodation for cyclists, like Davis, California, or Boulder, Colorado.

Some accommodation is nice. It's not enough to not own a car entirely.

It can be in some locations, if you're willing to take the limitations.

Minneapolis has a decent network: https://go.minneapolismn.gov/final-plan/bicycling/all-ages-a... (but of course you have snow half the year).

Cars are very useful, and they even exist in Europe; the reasonable best one ca do is work out a non-car commute and use it less - but it is possible to be entirely car free in many American cities (especially if you're willing to be in a smaller town that you can literally walk across).

Re: Europe’s Longest Bicycling Tunnel Opens in Norway

#230

Post by netrus »

niccl wrote: post #38
wiredfool wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, not exactly. Pedestrians are heavier than cars in terms of pounds per square foot. Bridges are designed for extreme loads, including pessimistic pattern loading, and the requirements for pedestrian bridges aren’t any less safety critical. (edit: I designed this bridge: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.597616,-122.3297804,3a,75y,7... )

there's more to it than just pounds per square foot. speed over the bridge matters too, which is why you get speed restrictions on some bridges

If these early '00 bridge builder games have taught me anything, you want to go as fast as possible, as you might reach the other side as the bridge is still in the process of collapsing ;)
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