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Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

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Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#21

Post by shortrounddev »

itsoktocry wrote: post #13
blagie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes you think windows is in a death spiral? They still have a good 75% market share and while that fluctuates, it doesn't seem to really drastically decrease. Of what? Most of what I see normal consumers doing is in Android, typically on ARM. I think my observations are a little biased, but not a lot. According to statcounter: Android 41.56% Windows 28.29% iOS 17.29% OS X 7% Unknown 3.05% Chrome OS 1.32% Cri…

> Most of what I see normal consumers doing is in Android, typically on ARM Comparing cell phone OS to a desktop OS is a bit silly. Nobody in the corporate world is doing work on Android.

Why not

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#22

Post by Panzer04 »

allie1 wrote: post #10
0zemp2c wrote: post #2

hard to feel sorry for Intel here they're still tied to Windows which is increasingly weaker and more rotted over time, losing market share every year for a decade (Microsoft doesn't even seem to care afaict) the Apple M1 laptop is an incredible value, offers 10x the performance the average person will need, with good battery life, a better OS/ecosystem...and its priced right! Intel needs to seriously look at Linux..…

The x86 ecosystem is far superior to Apple Silicon, and that is not going away any time soon. Macs have one big advantage - efficiency, which translates to long battery life and more importantly for me personally - NOT OVERHEATING. However, porting software to apple silicon results in inefficiencies, and for developers it gets a bit trickier. I have a M1 Max with 65GB ram and I love it, but the moment Intel comes out…

Overheating is entirely down to the profiles the manufacturers use. Intel processors can be efficient, but usually they get clocked to the moon on desktop. Laptops are so all over the place it's impossible to judge them either :/

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#24

Post by sokoloff »

shortrounddev wrote: post #17
sokoloff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy an M1 8/256 Air at $800 right now. I'd expect to get 5 years out of it minimum (we're buying one shortly to replace a mid-2013 Air). That's less than $15/month if it gets thrown in a bin in 5 years. It's under $20/mo if we bin it in 3.5 years. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/macbook-air-13-3-laptop-apple-m... I feel like the Chromebook on the lower end is great for a lot of uses/people and the Air is an easi…

> 5 years Because Apple will forcibly kill it after that with incompatible software updates. Windows machines keep going until they physically break. But what everyone here is missing is that the consumer desktop/laptop market is dying itself. Soon it will only be for enterprise uses and gaming. Most people do all their computing through a phone or tablet. I know people who don't own a laptop.

> Windows machines keep going until they physically break.

That's interesting, as I just this month replaced the two kids' Dell 9020s with new PCs because the 9020s didn't support TPM 2.0, required by Windows 11.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/enable-tpm-2-0-o...

"Most PCs that have shipped in the last 5 years are capable of running Trusted Platform Module version 2.0 (TPM 2.0). TPM 2.0 is required to run Windows 11, as an important building block for security-related features. TPM 2.0 is used in Windows 11 for a number of features, including Windows Hello for identity protection and BitLocker for data protection."

The 9 year old Dells were running just fine on Windows 10 (same as the 9 year old Air was on Catalina), but upgrading to the latest OS in both cases required a purchase.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#25

Post by whynotmaybe »

blagie wrote: post #9
mschild wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1 is a good chip, but Macs are expensive. Cheapest one you can currently buy is the Air. That starts at 1k USD pretax. That's not within reach for a large majority of the worlds population. Not even within reach for a lot people in richer western countries. Most people need a Webbrowser that can do Email, Streaming, and some social media. What makes you think windows is in a death spiral? They still have a good…

> What makes you think windows is in a death spiral? They still have a good 75% market share and while that fluctuates, it doesn't seem to really drastically decrease. Of what? Most of what I see normal consumers doing is in Android, typically on ARM. I think my observations are a little biased, but not a lot. According to statcounter: Android 41.56% Windows 28.29% iOS 17.29% OS X 7% Unknown 3.05% Chrome OS 1.32% Cri…

The "niche" market is corporate and gouv.

These industries won't buy macs as they are too expensive to maintain and to integrate into their existing active directory domains. (With a few exceptions for jobs where the Mac is the optimal device like graphic design)

No idea about percentage but windows won't disappear soon from those.

The android market share is mainly mobile devices and Microsoft gave that market up a few years ago, focusing on azure and office. Here again, focusing the corporate/gouv world.

The corporate/gouv world has many windows only app and processes that would cost a fortune to replace.

Windows is here to stay, just like mainframes.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#26

Post by neogodless »

allie1 wrote: post #10
0zemp2c wrote: post #2

hard to feel sorry for Intel here they're still tied to Windows which is increasingly weaker and more rotted over time, losing market share every year for a decade (Microsoft doesn't even seem to care afaict) the Apple M1 laptop is an incredible value, offers 10x the performance the average person will need, with good battery life, a better OS/ecosystem...and its priced right! Intel needs to seriously look at Linux..…

The x86 ecosystem is far superior to Apple Silicon, and that is not going away any time soon. Macs have one big advantage - efficiency, which translates to long battery life and more importantly for me personally - NOT OVERHEATING. However, porting software to apple silicon results in inefficiencies, and for developers it gets a bit trickier. I have a M1 Max with 65GB ram and I love it, but the moment Intel comes out…

> chip that doesn't overheat and is as performant

Does it have to be Intel, or would you consider AMD?

Yes, if you look back even just to Zen / Zen+ laptop chips, they were not impressive, but Zen 2 and newer based chips (Ryzen 4000 or higher) are performant, efficient, and do not overheat. There are some crazy 7045HX chips that are basically desktop chips that you wouldn't want in your laptop, but the 7040HS line is exactly what you were waiting for (as well as the 6000U and 6000HS line). Unless you need Intel over AMD for some reason?

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#27

Post by zpeti »

shortrounddev wrote: post #17
sokoloff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy an M1 8/256 Air at $800 right now. I'd expect to get 5 years out of it minimum (we're buying one shortly to replace a mid-2013 Air). That's less than $15/month if it gets thrown in a bin in 5 years. It's under $20/mo if we bin it in 3.5 years. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/macbook-air-13-3-laptop-apple-m... I feel like the Chromebook on the lower end is great for a lot of uses/people and the Air is an easi…

> 5 years Because Apple will forcibly kill it after that with incompatible software updates. Windows machines keep going until they physically break. But what everyone here is missing is that the consumer desktop/laptop market is dying itself. Soon it will only be for enterprise uses and gaming. Most people do all their computing through a phone or tablet. I know people who don't own a laptop.

This is the opposite of my experience. My wife still easily uses my old Mac that’s 8 years old. No performance issues.

Most windows machines I had worked for around 3 years. 5 max.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#28

Post by slashdev »

0zemp2c wrote: post #2

hard to feel sorry for Intel here they're still tied to Windows which is increasingly weaker and more rotted over time, losing market share every year for a decade (Microsoft doesn't even seem to care afaict) the Apple M1 laptop is an incredible value, offers 10x the performance the average person will need, with good battery life, a better OS/ecosystem...and its priced right! Intel needs to seriously look at Linux..…

When it came time almost two years ago to get a new laptop, I had a choice between a MacBook Pro for over $4000 or an Alienware that I could modify with 64gb memory and an extra SSD for half the price. Bare metal gaming with better performance and even though it doesn’t support Linux, it supports it better than Mac. Cost half as much. No futzing around with packages that don’t work on the M1, just good old AMD x86 goodness. The battery life sucks, but that rarely bothers me.

I’d love to buy an Apple, but it has never been priced competitively. My wife’s MacBook broke and it costs almost as much just to fix as to buy a new laptop.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#29

Post by mrtksn »

mschild wrote: post #4
0zemp2c wrote: post #2

hard to feel sorry for Intel here they're still tied to Windows which is increasingly weaker and more rotted over time, losing market share every year for a decade (Microsoft doesn't even seem to care afaict) the Apple M1 laptop is an incredible value, offers 10x the performance the average person will need, with good battery life, a better OS/ecosystem...and its priced right! Intel needs to seriously look at Linux..…

The M1 is a good chip, but Macs are expensive. Cheapest one you can currently buy is the Air. That starts at 1k USD pretax. That's not within reach for a large majority of the worlds population. Not even within reach for a lot people in richer western countries. Most people need a Webbrowser that can do Email, Streaming, and some social media. What makes you think windows is in a death spiral? They still have a good…

Macs are incredibly good value. The M1 Air actually starts at 800$ if you chase the deals and $900 if you buy from Apple with education discount.

Nothing ever comes to the quality at that price, so even if you can buy much cheaper laptops those suffer in quality and performance. This means the value per dollar is not any better than MacBook Air, unless you are extremely short on dollars.

Also the re-sell value of Apple products is good and combined with the durability of Apple laptops(this is where the repairability folks fail to convince most people because for most people Apple devices don't break down, they become obsolete after extensive use) the money spent on Macs turns to be an investment. The "Apple premium" you pay when you buy an iDevice is actually a recoverable when you sell it.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#30

Post by Eisenstein »

sokoloff wrote: post #24
shortrounddev wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5 years Because Apple will forcibly kill it after that with incompatible software updates. Windows machines keep going until they physically break. But what everyone here is missing is that the consumer desktop/laptop market is dying itself. Soon it will only be for enterprise uses and gaming. Most people do all their computing through a phone or tablet. I know people who don't own a laptop.

> Windows machines keep going until they physically break. That's interesting, as I just this month replaced the two kids' Dell 9020s with new PCs because the 9020s didn't support TPM 2.0, required by Windows 11. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/enable-tpm-2-0-o... "Most PCs that have shipped in the last 5 years are capable of running Trusted Platform Module version 2.0 (TPM 2.0). TPM 2.0 is required to ru…

I'm curious why you felt you needed to upgrade. To my knowledge Windows 11 doesn't do anything that Windows 10 cannot, except for support Intel e cores.
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