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European DSA Recipients of Services Report

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Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#141

Post by mensetmanusman »

jsnell wrote: post #10

> iOS App Store: 101 million > iPadOS App Store: 23 million Asserting that the iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store - and totally isn't in scope for the regulations - is certainly a bold strategy. I wonder why iTunes and Apple TV+ aren't included, and why Podcasts is only counting paid subscribers. Is there some obvious reason why these kinds of services would be out of scope?

They are very different app stores. Only android is still in the world where a tablet app is a phone app zoomed in.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#142

Post by smoldesu »

judge2020 wrote: post #140
smoldesu wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that if your markets are defined by a toggle switch in xcode, it's probably arbitrary.

Is it though? Checking the box quite literally opens you to more users. If you have an iPad native app, your market is much smaller than if you were to allow it to be downloaded on iPhones. And supposedly you get access to 2 million users by deploying to the list of apps available on Apple TV.

Look at the Microsoft Store. It's one storefront - you buy Minecraft for Xbox online, you can download it on PC and Xbox alike. It is a single marketplace, despite hosting mutually exclusive platforms. The App Store's situation is nearly identical - all of these platforms share a kernel and a common API base (much like the PC/Xbox relation). The App Store just has a different set of arbitrary boundaries that seem to be re-drawn every time they receive anticompetitive scrutiny.

Put another way - how would accepting this as-is help regulators proceed? It's a finely-tuned joke, and if it didn't come with the olive branch of "illegal content moderation" then it wouldn't have been taken with a straight face.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#143

Post by newaccount74 »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #24
jsnell wrote: post #10

> iOS App Store: 101 million > iPadOS App Store: 23 million Asserting that the iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store - and totally isn't in scope for the regulations - is certainly a bold strategy. I wonder why iTunes and Apple TV+ aren't included, and why Podcasts is only counting paid subscribers. Is there some obvious reason why these kinds of services would be out of scope?

Eh, I get the position here. Different device classes, different markets. I've gotten more than a few apps approved on tv, watch, Mac, iOS, iPad. They are distinctly different. As much as Apple is helping us leverage 'one code base to rule them all' there are so many gotchas and detail required to make great experiences on each.

The App Stores share user accounts, send a shared invoice at the end of the month, and many of the apps you buy are compatible with multiple platforms (eg. my calendar app comes with an iOS, a watchOS and an iPadOS version).

And the store is called just "App Store" on every platform.

Claiming that I somehow used 3 different stores to buy a single app is an accounting trick, nothing else.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#144

Post by gondaloof »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #141
jsnell wrote: post #10

> iOS App Store: 101 million > iPadOS App Store: 23 million Asserting that the iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store - and totally isn't in scope for the regulations - is certainly a bold strategy. I wonder why iTunes and Apple TV+ aren't included, and why Podcasts is only counting paid subscribers. Is there some obvious reason why these kinds of services would be out of scope?

They are very different app stores. Only android is still in the world where a tablet app is a phone app zoomed in.

I think you’re conflating separate issues. There’s barely any difference between iOS/iPadOS/macOS app stores. I can ship the same app for iOS and iPadOS in the same binary even.

The issue you’re describing is just the lack of investment in adding multi-pane views to android apps.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#145

Post by ktta »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #141
jsnell wrote: post #10

> iOS App Store: 101 million > iPadOS App Store: 23 million Asserting that the iPad App Store is distinct from the iOS App Store - and totally isn't in scope for the regulations - is certainly a bold strategy. I wonder why iTunes and Apple TV+ aren't included, and why Podcasts is only counting paid subscribers. Is there some obvious reason why these kinds of services would be out of scope?

They are very different app stores. Only android is still in the world where a tablet app is a phone app zoomed in.

There are still iPad apps that are essentially iOS apps zoomed in. X1 credit card app is something that comes to mind that I have to use

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#146

Post by scarface74 »

smoldesu wrote: post #142
judge2020 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it though? Checking the box quite literally opens you to more users. If you have an iPad native app, your market is much smaller than if you were to allow it to be downloaded on iPhones. And supposedly you get access to 2 million users by deploying to the list of apps available on Apple TV.

Look at the Microsoft Store. It's one storefront - you buy Minecraft for Xbox online, you can download it on PC and Xbox alike. It is a single marketplace, despite hosting mutually exclusive platforms. The App Store's situation is nearly identical - all of these platforms share a kernel and a common API base (much like the PC/Xbox relation). The App Store just has a different set of arbitrary boundaries that seem to…

> The App Store just has a different set of arbitrary boundaries that seem to be re-drawn every time they receive anticompetitive scrutiny.

Apple introduced the iPad in 2010 with the capability of selling different apps for iPhone and iPad. Back then, they didn’t have a framework for supporting screens of different sizes - which wasn’t introduced until around 2012.

They introduced the AppleTV that could have third party apps in 2015.

This was way before the EU started making up regulation because it can’t produce a viable tech company to save its life.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#147

Post by lutoma »

rpgbr wrote: post #66

Less than 1% of European iPhone users have an Apple Watch, or am I misreading something? I really thought this percentage was bigger in such a rich place.

Anecdotal, but that seems about right looking at my circle of friends and acquaintances in Germany. I know lots of people with iPhones, but very few of them have an Apple Watch. The only ones that have one tend to be hardcore Apple fans that own pretty much every Apple device.

I don’t think it’s really an affordability issue but more so that most people (myself included) don’t really see the point of the device. Heck, I actually own one as a hand-me-down from a friend and I still can’t be bothered to charge and wear the thing.

Im addition I think Apple watches sort of have a stigma as an unfashionable 'nerdy' device here.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#148

Post by katbyte »

babypuncher wrote: post #47
CostcoFanboy wrote: post #2

I'm surprised there are more Apple TV users than Apple watch users. It always felt like a fairly niched device. On a somewhat unrelated side-note, as a hardcore Plex user for the last 5-6 years, Apple TV has been an amazing Plex client. Second only to a Nvidia Shield Pro downgraded to 8.2.3 firmware. Honestly with the quality of their TV boxes, screens and the "ecosystem", I'm kind of surprised they didn't dive into…

You can thank me. I've been shilling the ATV to any friends or family I hear complain about their Roku/Fire Stick/smart TV. I went through literally all of them before getting an ATV, even the Shield, because for a long time I refused to believe Apple could make a good TV experience.

And one with zero ads on the home screen. Something the shield now does by default :(

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#149

Post by dang »

nottorp wrote: post #34

> Without prejudice to further consideration of the legal characterisation, Apple views each version of the App Store as a distinct online platform under the DSA, and only the iOS App Store may qualify as a VLOP. LOL LMAO ROFL. I really hope there is some EU directive that this is breaking so they can be fined just for being asses.

Can you please make your substantive points thoughtfully? We're trying to avoid shallow flamewars here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#150

Post by FateOfNations »

eptcyka wrote: post #84
anonymouse008 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I get the position here. Different device classes, different markets. I've gotten more than a few apps approved on tv, watch, Mac, iOS, iPad. They are distinctly different. As much as Apple is helping us leverage 'one code base to rule them all' there are so many gotchas and detail required to make great experiences on each.

Yeah, sort of how Microsoft could argue that there exists two separate markets for Windows running on stationary compute devices and Windows for mobile devices. Except this is a sad joke and letting Apple get away with two devices running the same OS would be playing into their hand that they stacked years ago when they split them off. What is up with the enormous amount of people on this site who are inexplicably ap…

The Microsoft comparison would be more like the Microsoft Store on Windows (the PC client version) vs. Xbox.
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