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European DSA Recipients of Services Report

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Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#131

Post by post-it »

_the_inflator wrote: post #33
anonymouse008 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I get the position here. Different device classes, different markets. I've gotten more than a few apps approved on tv, watch, Mac, iOS, iPad. They are distinctly different. As much as Apple is helping us leverage 'one code base to rule them all' there are so many gotchas and detail required to make great experiences on each.

I agree. Almost anyone of these one size fits all approaches hits a wall sooner or later. Besides very basic applications, I would never make use of frameworks like Flutter or React Native. Same goes for Windows Universal Apps. Great concepts, but not very feasible in reality for slightly complex apps with good UX.

I'm currently on a four-person team developing/maintaining a popular React Native app. Working with React Native is awful, but having two of us doing Android and two doing iOS would be worse.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#132

Post by brigandish »

Spivak wrote: post #110
sib wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, those are antithetical to individual freedom. If I want to work for less than the minimum salary, I can't. If I want to work at a company and not join a union, I can't. As someone once said, "the true minimum wage is zero."

You're describing freedom as in anarchy, the parent is describing freedom as in liberty. I am more free and able to use the software I want when the government forces Apple to unlock their devices even though it makes Apple less free. I am more free to travel when everyone follows the rules of the road even though I give up some autonomy to do so. I am more free to use wireless networks because everyone has to stick…

It appears to me that they're describing a negative liberty whereas you're describing a positive liberty.

From [1]:

> As [Iasiah] Berlin showed, negative and positive liberty are not merely two distinct kinds of liberty; they can be seen as rival, incompatible interpretations of a single political ideal. Since few people claim to be against liberty, the way this term is interpreted and defined can have important political implications. Political liberalism tends to presuppose a negative definition of liberty: liberals generally claim that if one favors individual liberty one should place strong limitations on the activities of the state. Critics of liberalism often contest this implication by contesting the negative definition of liberty: they argue that the pursuit of liberty understood as self-realization or as self-determination (whether of the individual or of the collectivity) can require state intervention of a kind not normally allowed by liberals.

[1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberty-positive-negative...

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#133

Post by mycall »

makestuff wrote: post #46
_the_inflator wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Almost anyone of these one size fits all approaches hits a wall sooner or later. Besides very basic applications, I would never make use of frameworks like Flutter or React Native. Same goes for Windows Universal Apps. Great concepts, but not very feasible in reality for slightly complex apps with good UX.

Do you think it is worth the increased time to start out as a native app, or is it still worth rolling your MVP as flutter/reactive native?

This depends on the number of platforms you're trying to support.

iOS, Android, mobile web, Windows and Linux? Flutter or Expo.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#134

Post by brigandish »

smoldesu wrote: post #102
sib wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, those are antithetical to individual freedom. If I want to work for less than the minimum salary, I can't. If I want to work at a company and not join a union, I can't. As someone once said, "the true minimum wage is zero."

It is possible to be free in a society that restricts some personal freedoms. The libertarian extremist model that you're suggesting doesn't resemble a society at all, and it's mostly a testament to why we can't provide total personal or market freedom. Without being able to disincentivize bad behavior, everyone will race to the bottom regardless of altruistic intent.

> The libertarian extremist model that you're suggesting doesn't resemble a society at all

Prior to Woodrow Wilson, and more explicitly prior to Franklin Roosevelt's four freedoms[1] (specifically, the 3rd and 4th), most (legal) liberty was of that kind. Whether that's better or worse is arguable, obviously, but it certainly counts as society.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#135

Post by vlovich123 »

Twisell wrote: post #98
eptcyka wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, sort of how Microsoft could argue that there exists two separate markets for Windows running on stationary compute devices and Windows for mobile devices. Except this is a sad joke and letting Apple get away with two devices running the same OS would be playing into their hand that they stacked years ago when they split them off. What is up with the enormous amount of people on this site who are inexplicably ap…

This is hilarious considering that the classical, yet irrational, fear amongst long time MacOS users is that Apple might be secretly planing an OS convergence. This is usually perceived as doomsday for MacOS and have been feared by some for up to 15 years. You are basically stating the opposite while completely ignoring the actual complexity of such an hypothetical merge for codebases that forked 15 years ago. They s…

I mean convergence was a 100% goal internally when I worked at Apple 8 years ago. afaict they’ve been gradually bringing the experiences and software stacks closer and closer together and they’ve been locking down MacOS more and more.

Not sure why you see it as an irrational fear. What timeline are they actually working under / how are they prioritizing that convergence? I don’t know but it’s clear it will happen. I’m sure there’s a lot of unification going on of background services (radio stacks, security hardening, etc) in addition to more visible UI pieces.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#136

Post by [deleted] »

brigandish wrote: post #134
smoldesu wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to be free in a society that restricts some personal freedoms. The libertarian extremist model that you're suggesting doesn't resemble a society at all, and it's mostly a testament to why we can't provide total personal or market freedom. Without being able to disincentivize bad behavior, everyone will race to the bottom regardless of altruistic intent.

> The libertarian extremist model that you're suggesting doesn't resemble a society at all Prior to Woodrow Wilson, and more explicitly prior to Franklin Roosevelt's four freedoms [1] (specifically, the 3rd and 4th), most (legal) liberty was of that kind. Whether that's better or worse is arguable, obviously, but it certainly counts as society. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms

[deleted]

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#137

Post by vivegi »

systemvoltage wrote: post #83

Wait, why is this a regulation? Why should a corporation have to disclose MAU? I’m holding off my cynicism, asking for a friend.

Because many jurisdictions have regulations that target large corporations and large is objectively defined in the rules as some number of users. (I am using large loosely. EU defines very large as 10% of the 450M EU consumers).

EU statute has both monthly reporting, yearly and 3 year trends for determining specific applicable rules for large operators.

Example:

The regulation that Apple is trying to comply with EU Digital Services Act [1], [2]

The EU Digital Markets Act [2], [3]

(India) Information Technology (Intermediary Guidelines and Digital Media Ethics Code) Rules, 2021 (updated 06.04.2023) [4]

(Germany) Network Enforcement Act [5]

(France) Law requiring large social media operators to remove hate speech, crimes against humanity, sexual harassment etc., [6]

[1]: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/digital-se...

[2]: https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-...

[3]: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_...

[4]: https://www.meity.gov.in/writereaddata/files/Information%20T...

[5]: https://germanlawarchive.iuscomp.org/?p=1245

[6]: https://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/dyn/actualites-accueil-hu...

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#138

Post by judge2020 »

andrejguran wrote: post #99
scarface74 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t install iPad only apps on iPhone though.

you can if you check one checkmark during publishing of your iOS app (same with mac).

> your iOS app

How many of the 45 million users have ever touched xcode?

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#139

Post by smoldesu »

judge2020 wrote: post #138
andrejguran wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can if you check one checkmark during publishing of your iOS app (same with mac).

> your iOS app How many of the 45 million users have ever touched xcode?

I think the point is that if your markets are defined by a toggle switch in xcode, it's probably arbitrary.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#140

Post by judge2020 »

smoldesu wrote: post #139
judge2020 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your iOS app How many of the 45 million users have ever touched xcode?

I think the point is that if your markets are defined by a toggle switch in xcode, it's probably arbitrary.

Is it though? Checking the box quite literally opens you to more users. If you have an iPad native app, your market is much smaller than if you were to allow it to be downloaded on iPhones. And supposedly you get access to 2 million users by deploying to the list of apps available on Apple TV.
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