The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness • Hacker News Board

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#181

Post by senectus1 » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 1:05 AM UTC

feoren wrote: post #134

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN has a well defined categorization of foods according to the amount and type of processing [1]. You can identify the processing level of many food item by using this search engine [2]. [1] https://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/CA5644EN.pdf [2] https://world.openfoodfacts.org/product/3017620422003/nutell...

Thank you for these links. If nothing else, the UN document at least defines what it's talking about. It's 3rd tier, "processed food", is basically: watch out, they added oil, salt, or other preservatives. The same people worried about "processed foods" are adding their own oil to foods (rightly so, usually!). But when a factory does it, LOOK OUT! . I mean, yes: watch your salt intake if you eat a lot of canned foods…

Highly processed foods tend to have higher caloric value and lower values of fiber and simple sugars or adding excessive amounts of sugars and fats.

I'm with you most of the way, but a lot of the long life prepackaged foods that are marketed to us are maximizing the bad and minimizing the good for the purpose of efficiency and profit.

Being forced to prepare foods from "wholefoods" (i hate this classification/tag as well) tends to make us more mindful of what we're eating and how much of it we're consuming.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#182

Post by asdfman123 » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 1:06 AM UTC

smolder wrote: post #132

feoren wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit This is great advice for most people, depending on what "whole" means. Am I allowed to cut and cook my vegetables? Stick them in a food processor? Are they still "whole" then? I've never understood why people even bother to throw this word "whole" into anything. You just mean you didn…

Processed foods are a vaguely defined and somewhat arbitrary category of foods, but that does not mean the correlation between foods being highly processed and unhealthy is BS. Things that have ingredients like brominated vegetable oil or various other preservatives and stabilizers for texture and shelf life, artificial colors and lots of HFCS, meat slurries that have been pumped through tubes and formed into precise…

Lots of things have context specific meanings. If someone says “my cell phone,” you do not yell at them for not clarifying it’s actually a general purpose computer.

Similarly, in nutrition, “processed foods” have a pretty well established definition. There’s room to debate the term, but it’s still well understood.

Generally speaking, though, one should try to not make the mistake of assuming that others are confused when in fact they are.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#183

Post by Beaver117 » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 1:24 AM UTC

I'm so disappointed at the state of HN. Instead of good faith discussion we have a bunch of keto anti-carb people pushing their narrative. Did you forget that a large number of people are Asian, eat large servings of carbs (rice) every day and live longer and are healthier overall than western people?

Wasn't the standard bodybuilder diet chicken, rice, and broccoli?

All of a sudden carbs are now "crap" and everyone tries to be in ketosis 24/7.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#184

Post by jaredhallen » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:37 AM UTC

> We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression...

> ...that greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression and inversely correlated with gut microbiome diversity.

So which is it when it comes to fat? My experience says fat and fiber make me feel good. Carbohydrates bad. Protein, neither good nor bad.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#185

Post by mtrpcic » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:47 AM UTC

eyeundersand wrote: post #123

RugnirViking wrote: post #2

Interesting. Note this has not yet been peer-reviewed, so findings must be taken with an especially large pinch of salt even compared to your average paper. In this case, they only looked at 20 adults over 2 weeks, so I feel that any conclusions drawn here are circumstancial at best. Apparently the reseach was funded by NIH and therefore at least partly the taxpayer. Seems like a bit of a strange study to fund, in my…

This was going to be my comment too. N = 20 is atrocious and that too only over 2 weeks. Think any significant, measurable changes to mental health outcomes would probably take a lot longer than that to manifest. I further find results from any kind of "food recall" surveys (or just surveys in general) hard to believe. Stated vs. revealed preferences/outcomes should be a bigger debate imo.

Any major changes to gut biome will definitely take more than two weeks. Anyone who has ever had to do an elimination diet will tell you that it can take 4 to 6 weeks for things to normalize when making dietary changes.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#186

Post by saurik » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:51 AM UTC

jaredhallen wrote: post #184

> We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression... > ...that greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression and inversely correlated with gut microbiome diversity. So which is it when it comes to fat? My experience says fat and fiber make me feel good. Carbohydrates bad. Protein, neither good nor bad.

I didn't see how to get the actual paper off this website. I got it off of ResearchGate, though. Maybe this inconsistency can be figured out there (I ran out of the time I was able to allocate towards figuring this out just now).

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/369458140_The_Role_...

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#187

Post by luckman212 » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:54 AM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #175

hombre_fatal wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimize saturated fat (by replacing it with unsaturated fat). Get enough protein. Eat healthy carbs*. * On HN and other social media, "carbs" is a euphemism for sugar and cake rather than beans and vegetables, so people will talk about how carbs made them fat when you know they're not talking about slamming back-to-back cans of garbanzos. And don't take any nutrition advice seriously that doesn't break fat apart int…

> Minimize saturated fat (by replacing it with unsaturated fat). No. > * On HN and other social media, "carbs" is a euphemism for sugar and cake rather than beans and vegetables, so people will talk about how carbs made them fat when you know they're not talking about slamming back-to-back cans of garbanzos. Maybe that's because nobody wants to slam down cans of garbanzo beans. Garbanzo beans suck unless they're made…

Can you elaborate on why choosing saturated vs unsaturated fats is not important?

Also: to your "garbanzo beans suck" point- I actually love them—but not those awful canned ones! I enjoy raw sprouted chickpeas from our local farmers market on salads, or simmering some dried ones with onion, tomato, a bay leaf and some yogurt until they are just "al dente".

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#188

Post by parentheses » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:58 AM UTC

Balooga wrote: post #91

I lost about 70lbs in about 10 months by cutting out processed foods, cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit. And by not juicing, and not drinking smoothies. I also did a lot of strength training so as to lose fat and not muscle. I didn't try to reduce the amount of calories I was eating, just change where those calories wer…

Inspiring!! Congratulations

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#189

Post by parentheses » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 3:06 AM UTC

reubenswartz wrote: post #119

algoatecorn wrote: post #71

Last year, I started an experiment with my diet. It started with the idea of eating as cheaply as possible with nutrient dense foods, but I started off with an elimination diet. I chose 2-3 "meals" that I could easily prep and only cost $2-4 each. Mostly eggs, ground beef, white rice, potatoes. I quickly added bell peppers and onions. I tracked macros, and filled in the micros with new additions. Calories as well of…

I make a salad most days for lunch. Some variation in ingredients, but I can have a healthy meal in < 5 minutes that I actually crave and I have good energy through out the afternoon. If you had told me when I was younger that I do this and it's not a punishment, I would not have believed you, but highly recommend.

I love sweetgreen for this reason. It really showed me how salad and healthy western food in general can be tasty.

I grew up with a few strict options:

1. very flavorful Indian food of varying healthiness made by mom,

2. rich western foods made in a factory,

3. badly seasoned healthy western foods made by mom.

My mom never learned how to make healthy western food that tasted good because things like balsamic or the right balance of ingredients are what determines flavor (oversimplifying) in western cooking.

As a result, it took meeting my American partner and eating healthy food she or her family made. That helped me understand that tasty healthy food does exist.

Sadly this has left me with a strange attitude about food which is wrong. When I want tasty food, I am not quick to think of healthy foods.

Trying to change it but I thought maybe other immigrants landing in the western world had the same experience.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#190

Post by cardosof » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 3:58 AM UTC

runlaszlorun wrote: post #23

blakesterz wrote: post #13

"After the diet change, we observed significant changes in measures of anxiety, well-being and happiness, and without changes in gut microbiome diversity. We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression, while consuming higher percentages of carbohydrates was associated with increased stress, anxiety, and depression." I think most of us would agree that make…

> I think most of us would agree that makes sense? Eat like crap, feel like crap? I’m just an average joe trying to figure out how to improve a diet, but I haven’t found much of a consensus regarding fats vs proteins vs carbohydrates.

I don't think there's a silver bullet. The % for each macro - if it's a low carb or high fat or high protein really depend on the individual and the specific needs. My wife for example can't go on low carb or she'll have major headaches even after the "adaptation period", while I don't even get minor headaches. Also the amount of fat may vary, high fat diets tend to be better for overweight people while healthy people are OK with more balanced diets. The most important things are defining an objective and understanding how your own body works. My current diet was made for slowly losing body fat (mild caloric deficit) and it's like this: Breakfast: whole milk, oats, whey protein, flaxseed and chia seeds. Lunch: brown rice, vegetables, meat (steak twice a week, chicken or fish the other days) Afternoon snack: 2 boiled eggs Dinner: lunch without rice. It works for me but the whole milk and the steaks are really bad for some people.