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The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#141

Post by uberduper »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #84
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell the best research is that saturated fat is pretty neutral. Earlier research blaming saturated fat was flawed.

There is a whole mountain of evidence that saturated fat increases LDL cholesterol and better markers like Apo B. Placebo controlled, double-blind interventions. You can even run the experiment on yourself with monthly blood panels. Are you contesting that? That's pretty settled science. Low-carb influencers don't even deny that, so they instead try to hand-wave that high LDL/ApoB aren't a problem. Usually with some…

My understanding of the low carb argument here is that LDL isn't inherently bad, but oxidized LDL is and that LDL requires a high blood sugar environment for oxidation. I don't have any reason to know if that's right or wrong. I hope it's right, but I also have made efforts to avoid processed meats high in saturated fats (like salami, cold cuts) just in case.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#142

Post by eikenberry »

soneca wrote: post #109
feoren wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> processed foods > whole ingredients These are utterly meaningless terms. You "process" food by cutting and cooking it. Everything is processed. Everything is GMO -- have you seen what corn looked like before humans bred it? Everything is organic. Everything is "whole". Nutrition is too complicated and too individualized for these nonsense labels. > I'm getting the maximum amount of nutrients from my food This is ut…

> ” You "process" food by cutting and cooking it. Everything is processed” No one means that cutting a carrot make it into “processed food”. You are changing a mostly commonly understood definition to a new wanna-be-technically-correct one you just made up only to suit your argument. There is a grey area in the definition of processed foods, but it’s not close as large as your definition maintains.

There is no commonly understood definition of processed foods. That is the problem. People throw the term around like it does mean something but they can't define it.

Please show me I'm wrong and give a concise definition of what makes some food processed. The internet needs a good definition as these conversations always just end up with hand waving as there is no consensus of what food is what.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#143

Post by npunt »

feoren wrote: post #137
inglor_cz wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stop spreading this bullshit." Looking at the entirety of your comment, you should really apply this advice to yourself. Highly processed or ultra-processed food is absolutely a meaningful term. The United Nations published so-called NOVA food classification which divides food into four categories by the amount of processing it received. Category 4 is what OP was talking about. Industrially processed stuff full of p…

> Highly processed or ultra-processed food is absolutely a meaningful term. And yet nobody said "avoid ultra-processed food as defined by NOVA". They said "avoid processed foods" and "eat whole foods". It's extremely generous to assume everyone reading the former translates that in their head to "avoid ultra-processed food as defined by NOVA". And the latter is meaningless. Even if that is what they really mean, that…

It sounds like you're expecting others to provide complex-but-accurate advice when OP and most of the responders are happy with simple-and-implementable advice. A lot of the discourse around diets comes down to tension between these two.

Simple-and-implementable is something you can deploy in the moment without knowing things beforehand. If you're at a grocery store, you can ask yourself "is this really processed?" as a simple filter that will largely steer you right. Similarly, Michael Pollan's advice to "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants" resonates with a huge number of people because it's a simple, actionable, not very fussy way to approach eating.

Complex-but-accurate advice is stuff like 'let me look up if this follows the definition of tier 3 or 4 processed', or 'I have to have 5g net carbs today and this is 1.2g so I have 3.8g left'. This has a much higher cognitive load, requires a lot of research and pre-planning, and is unlikely to be implemented in the moment nor sustained long term. It's also a place where people can develop unhealthy psychological relationships with food and eating by being hypervigilant about complex rules.

Most people find their lives work best with simple-and-implementable rules of thumb for food.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#144

Post by kelipso »

runlaszlorun wrote: post #12

I’ll confess that I’ve only read the abstract, but was totally confused by this apparent contradiction… > We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression vs > We have shown that changing diet affects mood and happiness, that greater fat and carbohydrate intake is directly associated with anxiety and depression The first says fat reduces anxiety and depressio…

Looks like they didn't find significant effects when you eat fat, carb, protein independently (maybe they didn't look at it independently, idk). But if you eat fat along with protein, or if you eat fat along with carb, they find significant effects.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#145

Post by mfer »

DrThunder wrote: post #74
mfer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it detailed the types of carbs. Carbs from whole grains and things like fruit are different from processed carbs where the supporting parts of the food are removed. That's why Keto bread will look at fiber compared to total carbs. It depends on the form of carb. I wish the overview touched on the different types of carbs and their impact. Not all carbs are alike.

Better, but still carbs. It's just harder to eat a lot of those. I would challenge "whole grains" actually being any better at all. Honestly, I think the whole fiber intake stuff is bs. Anecdotally, I feel much better on a low fiber high protein diet than anything else. So does the rest of my family. My opinion on carbs is that you should only eat them when you're going to burn them quickly. That's what they're for,…

Low fiber can leave you feeling good in the short term but it has long term health implications, I've read. The book Fiber Fueled [1] talks about what happens with fiber in our gut and the impact on our bodies at a high level. The author (an MD GI doctor) provides the scientific background for his claims for those that want it.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Fiber-Fueled-Plant-Based-Optimizing-M...

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#146

Post by NegativeK »

blakesterz wrote: post #13

"After the diet change, we observed significant changes in measures of anxiety, well-being and happiness, and without changes in gut microbiome diversity. We found strong correlations between greater consumption of fat and protein to lower anxiety and depression, while consuming higher percentages of carbohydrates was associated with increased stress, anxiety, and depression." I think most of us would agree that make…

> Eat like crap, feel like crap?

The feelings I associate with eating like crap are brief malaise in the form of a tummy ache. The article is talking about more significant changes, such as overall happiness versus depression.

Anecdote time: I've recently discovered that a food intolerance makes me surprisingly grumpy for at least a couple of days. I'll find myself (fortunately in my internal monologue) arguing with people over trivial stuff. Completely avoiding the ingredient, however, pretty much nukes that behavior.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#147

Post by Balooga »

feoren wrote: post #99
Balooga wrote: post #91

I lost about 70lbs in about 10 months by cutting out processed foods, cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit. And by not juicing, and not drinking smoothies. I also did a lot of strength training so as to lose fat and not muscle. I didn't try to reduce the amount of calories I was eating, just change where those calories wer…

> cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit This is great advice for most people, depending on what "whole" means. Am I allowed to cut and cook my vegetables? Stick them in a food processor? Are they still "whole" then? I've never understood why people even bother to throw this word "whole" into anything. You just mean you didn…

> cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit

>> This is great advice for most people, depending on what "whole" means. Am I allowed to cut and cook my vegetables?

Cooked, steamed, cut. Yes. Basically just don't "juice" or smoothie anything. The idea is to have your digestive system do as much of the "processing" as possible, and not outsource this to some external system. The longer it takes the food to digest, the longer you stay feeling "full". And feeling full really helps when it comes to weight loss. It's also harder to eat a dozen large whole oranges and bananas than it is to drink them.

> cutting out processed foods

>> This is utterly meaningless bullshit.

Keeping the glycemic index low means you automatically avoid foods like TV dinners, McDonalds burgers, highly processed white bread, etc.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#148

Post by NegativeK »

feoren wrote: post #99
Balooga wrote: post #91

I lost about 70lbs in about 10 months by cutting out processed foods, cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit. And by not juicing, and not drinking smoothies. I also did a lot of strength training so as to lose fat and not muscle. I didn't try to reduce the amount of calories I was eating, just change where those calories wer…

> cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit This is great advice for most people, depending on what "whole" means. Am I allowed to cut and cook my vegetables? Stick them in a food processor? Are they still "whole" then? I've never understood why people even bother to throw this word "whole" into anything. You just mean you didn…

When people refer to "processed foods", they're talking about things like frozen dinners and industrially prepared fried foods. Similarly, when people talk about "whole vegetables", I assume they're referring to buying the ingredient in the produce section and eating it without a bunch of fats and sugars.

> This is utterly meaningless bullshit.

This is unnecessarily combative. Unless you just want to score internet points by insulting people, everyone (including you) will get a lot more out of discussions if you steelman the other person's argument.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#149

Post by nawgz »

BobbyJo wrote: post #106
nawgz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I, like anyone with any knowledge of nutrition, am saying "it's obviously protein and fat, the stuff that helps you grow" Every major study comparing keto and other more balanced diets disagrees with you. Carbs aren't just good for what they are mixed with, but also because they can displace more harmful sources of energy, like saturated fats. Most things that are 0 carb, have lots of saturated fat and cholesterol.…

> Necessary does not mean sufficient. In biology, necessary doesn't even mean harmless

Has anyone even used the word "necessary" in the entire thread? What are you on about?

> It's not nit-picking if you're giving blanket advice that's misleading

What advice am I giving that's misleading?

I am stating: in general, carbs are unnecessary for your health, and the goal behind consuming them should be to acquire nutrients, not calories from carbohydrate sources. Carbohydrate sources can help with energy, but little else. Eating healthy proteins and fats should be prioritized.

Thoughts of eating processed bullshit with full of saturated and trans fats is only coming out of your side of this conversation.

Re: The Role of Diet on the Gut Microbiome, Mood and Happiness

#150

Post by wincy »

Balooga wrote: post #91

I lost about 70lbs in about 10 months by cutting out processed foods, cutting out foods with added sugar, eating foods having a low glycemic index, eating a lot of chicken, whole vegetables, whole fruit. And by not juicing, and not drinking smoothies. I also did a lot of strength training so as to lose fat and not muscle. I didn't try to reduce the amount of calories I was eating, just change where those calories wer…

I lost 80 pounds eating hot dogs and kimchi for about six months. No exercise at all.

I don’t know what this means exactly only that people act like I’m crazy when I mention it.

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