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Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

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Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#51

Post by andrepd »

voz_ wrote: post #40
user982 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all of those 44 years, the US has been continuously sanctioning, attacking, isolating, and threatening Iran.

Maybe if they didn't sponsor terrorism around the world, while oppressing their own people, they wouldn't get sanctioned? The find out part of fuck around doesn't mean they don't control their own destiny. Plenty of normal countries to look at for example.

That's a weak argument, as we (the West) sponsor many terrorist or oppressive regimes as long as it is in our economic or political interest. The US sponsored brutal and even genocidal regimes from Guatemala to Timor.

Talking about morality and "fighting terrorism and oppression" is laughable.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#52

Post by mkoubaa »

andrepd wrote: post #48
ybinator604g3 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other day I was watching Neil deGrasse Tyson on Joe Rogan show and he was talking about Islamic Science and how Algebra, Astronomy, etc. come from Islam. I was baffled as an Iranian. I get that there is this anti muslim rhetoric lurking around and these people are trying to fight it. I assume they are well intentioned but in doing so they are doing the same thing that they advocate against. But I like your point…

Ah the famous historians Neil deGrasse Tyson and Joe Rogan... Better to head to /r/askhistorians with those kinds of questions.

How dare they, the arrogant fools, talk to each other

/s

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#53

Post by ybinator604g3 »

dendriti wrote: post #43
someotherperson wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Persian influence was incredibly important, in fact the Islamic Golden Age is marked by Persian customs being absorbed into daily living with the establishment of the Abbasid caliphate. So if you're feeling like it's taking value away from Persian history, instead, try to see it from the perspective that Persians are a large part of the reason why the Golden Age is even a thing :)

It's difficult to separate Persian history from Islam during the Golden Age of Islam in Persia.

While intertwined, History and Religion are two different concepts. Of course one can differentiate between them.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#54

Post by nashashmi »

ybinator604g3 wrote: post #20

Maybe a bit off topic but it's always strange when someone says "Islamic Golden Age" when talking about Iran. Nothing against a specific religion. It's like saying Newton's work came during Christian Golden Age in Europe. The religion had nothing to do with it. In fact, there is a book [1] (in Persian) title "Two Centuries of Silence" that talks about the significant blow to Iran's culture, literature and science aft…

The reason it is called the Islamic golden age is because of the Islamic empire that connected the innovations of the east to the west. Muslims themselves didn't directly have any contributions other than their philosophy and attitude unleashed from a reformed Arabian expansionism. The places they touched and the bridges they made changed everyone and all of history.

The Renaissance of Europe is directly a result of the Islamic golden age. The vikings who conquered Italy sought to learn both Sicilian Arabic, and Italian causing a bridge between Europe and the middle east of North Africa.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#55

Post by mkoubaa »

voz_ wrote: post #7
soperj wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were replacing a West installed dictator... Don't know if it's entirely the Ayatollah's fault here.

It's been 44 years, I think we need to stop giving countries a pass like this, at a certain point, their destiny is their own.

Yeah, why haven't they overthrown a brutally repressive regime? Haven't they heard of Ghandi?

Please - don't do this. You don't know how hard it is for revolutions to succeed

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#56

Post by alphakappa »

falaki wrote: post #17

That "Islamic Golden Age" is a complete misnomer. It hides the religious diversity of the geography. Many don't know that it took many centuries for the majority of the population of the Iranian plateau to convert to Islam. For a good part of what is referred to as "Islamic Golden Age" Islam was not the dominant religion. Similar story applies to India. Up until 17th century, India was ruled by "muslim" rulers. Shoul…

Sorry to be pedantic, but not up until, but from the 15th century or so (Babur) until some time in the 18th century (Battle of Plassey). And not all of India but a northern region. Indian history and geography are just too vast to be contained in simple phrases (including what I said above)

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#57

Post by thaumasiotes »

jagaerglad wrote: post #15
chocolatelab82 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Not to mention Farsi has some of the most beautiful proverbs.

Just a minor pet peeve but why not keep calling the language "Persian" in English? Just how it doesn't feel entirely right to suddenly start calling Spanish "Español" in English, or Swedish as "Svenska" and so on

Something similar that confuses me is the recent shift from calling the river "Yangtze" in English to calling it "Yangzi".

Yangzi is the correct pinyin spelling of the syllables that "Yangtze" was meant to indicate. (Similarly, if you want to spell them in modern pinyin, you'd have Laozi instead of Lao Tzu/Tze, Sunzi instead of Sun Tzu, and of course Kongzi instead of Confucius.) But the Chinese name of the river is something completely different. What's the point of updating the spelling of the English name as if it were also the Chinese name?

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#58

Post by ybinator604g3 »

dredmorbius wrote: post #45
ybinator604g3 wrote: post #20

Maybe a bit off topic but it's always strange when someone says "Islamic Golden Age" when talking about Iran. Nothing against a specific religion. It's like saying Newton's work came during Christian Golden Age in Europe. The religion had nothing to do with it. In fact, there is a book [1] (in Persian) title "Two Centuries of Silence" that talks about the significant blow to Iran's culture, literature and science aft…

Applying labels is always fraught and involves compromises. "Islamic World" is well-established and generally recognised. It's also more nuanced than hot takes suggest. Peter Adamson, host of the History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps podcast and author of the book series from the same project, devotes roughlythe first 20 minutes of his Google Talk about Islamic Philosophy to the matter of why "Islamic World" is in f…

Thanks for the link. I watched the first 20 minutes and will watch the rest now. It's very interesting.

A small note, popularity (being generally recognized) is not a good indicator of the validity of any view point and it certainly does not mean we cannot challenge them.

> It's also more nuanced than hot takes suggest.

I believe as an Iranian and a history enthusiast, what I expressed was one of those these nuances which is presumably being labeled as hot take, or am I mistaken and you referring to something from somewhere else?

edit: fixed typo

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#59

Post by dredmorbius »

ybinator604g3 wrote: post #58
dredmorbius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applying labels is always fraught and involves compromises. "Islamic World" is well-established and generally recognised. It's also more nuanced than hot takes suggest. Peter Adamson, host of the History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps podcast and author of the book series from the same project, devotes roughlythe first 20 minutes of his Google Talk about Islamic Philosophy to the matter of why "Islamic World" is in f…

Thanks for the link. I watched the first 20 minutes and will watch the rest now. It's very interesting. A small note, popularity (being generally recognized) is not a good indicator of the validity of any view point and it certainly does not mean we cannot challenge them. > It's also more nuanced than hot takes suggest. I believe as an Iranian and a history enthusiast, what I expressed was one of those these nuances…

Adamson's work generally is excellent. I've been following the podcast for about 4--5 years now, and have worked through the entire mainline backlog (I'm now revisiting parts), though I'm still catching up on the Indian and Africana Philosophy track. Very highly recommended.

"Islamic World" replaces several earlier-prevalent terms. Again, Adamson makes the case against several proposed alternatives.

On which point, what specifically is yours?

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#60

Post by erenyeager »

ybinator604g3 wrote: post #53
dendriti wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to separate Persian history from Islam during the Golden Age of Islam in Persia.

While intertwined, History and Religion are two different concepts. Of course one can differentiate between them.

The reason behind drawing such a distinction may be more telling, as there is a larger push in some groups to draw this distinction for the sake of harkening back to pre-Islamic Persia. But of course, modern Persia and Islam are intertwined, so usually those who wish to draw a distinction do so for political or religious bias reasons.
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