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Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

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Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a minor pet peeve but why not keep calling the language "Persian" in English? Just how it doesn't feel entirely right to suddenly start calling Spanish "Español" in English, or Swedish as "Svenska" and so on

My (open to correction) understanding was that "Farsi" has some use in referring to the Iranian standardization of Persian (as contrasted to Dari, its Afghani counterpart).

Yes, it is useful when you want to contrast Iranian Persian with other varieties used in Afghanistan, Tajikistan etc., but when talking about all of them together it is confusing.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#42

Maybe a bit off topic but it's always strange when someone says "Islamic Golden Age" when talking about Iran. Nothing against a specific religion. It's like saying Newton's work came during Christian Golden Age in Europe. The religion had nothing to do with it. In fact, there is a book [1] (in Persian) title "Two Centuries of Silence" that talks about the significant blow to Iran's culture, literature and science aft…

> The religion had nothing to do with it.

I would disagree with it.

Imagine if, Islam was opposing to the idea of science, as the largest religion of that area (which not only included Iran, but many others), what would happen? Science would have been abolished, stopped immediately. Instead, Islam encouraged people to learn more science, even greek philosophers work was translated by hiring Christian people.

On the other hand, economic and political prosperity after conquering many places helped people to calm down and focus on science, helping other people, coming up with solutions for different issues.

I think Islam had direct impact to the science of that era.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#43

Maybe a bit off topic but it's always strange when someone says "Islamic Golden Age" when talking about Iran. Nothing against a specific religion. It's like saying Newton's work came during Christian Golden Age in Europe. The religion had nothing to do with it. In fact, there is a book [1] (in Persian) title "Two Centuries of Silence" that talks about the significant blow to Iran's culture, literature and science aft…

Persian influence was incredibly important, in fact the Islamic Golden Age is marked by Persian customs being absorbed into daily living with the establishment of the Abbasid caliphate. So if you're feeling like it's taking value away from Persian history, instead, try to see it from the perspective that Persians are a large part of the reason why the Golden Age is even a thing :)

It's difficult to separate Persian history from Islam during the Golden Age of Islam in Persia.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#44
post #12

Water management in southeastern Spain, the Alpujarras region, is a fascinating topic. The local communities maintain very precise irrigation ditches ("acequias de careo") midway along the mountains. During the months of rainfall and snowmelt, the water flowing along these ditches is soaked into the ground up to the point where the ditch ends because all the water has been absorbed underground. Months later, the wate…

so they use the mountain as a buffer to delay flow until summer ?

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#45

Maybe a bit off topic but it's always strange when someone says "Islamic Golden Age" when talking about Iran. Nothing against a specific religion. It's like saying Newton's work came during Christian Golden Age in Europe. The religion had nothing to do with it. In fact, there is a book [1] (in Persian) title "Two Centuries of Silence" that talks about the significant blow to Iran's culture, literature and science aft…

Applying labels is always fraught and involves compromises. "Islamic World" is well-established and generally recognised. It's also more nuanced than hot takes suggest.

Peter Adamson, host of the History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps podcast and author of the book series from the same project, devotes roughlythe first 20 minutes of his Google Talk about Islamic Philosophy to the matter of why "Islamic World" is in fact the most useful term to use, in contrast to alternatives such as "Arabic" (obviously inapplicable to Persia), "Islam" (fails to acknowledge the role of non-muslim religions, including Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, etc.).

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=_NKi-XRZ4KI>

As Adamson notes, it would be more accurate to call mediaeval European philosophy "Christian Philosophy" than to call the philosophical tradition of south-Western and south-Central Asia "Islamic Philosophy", as effectively all mediaeval European philosophers were Christian. Adamson also notes that philosophy of the Islamic World draws heavily on Greek and Roman philosophy (largely via the Byzantine empire) as well as Indian and African philosophical traditions.

"Islamic" refers to not merely the religious foundation, but the greater cultural, political, legal (Islamic jurisprudence is a major factor and influence), etc., etc. As with many other contexts, "dominant influence" does not mean "exlusive" or even "majority", but "that which has the greatest overall impact in a specific area". (Cue numerous tedious HN discussions over questions of "monopoly" or geographic applicability of toponyms such as "Silicon Valley" (contrast "Hollywood" or "Bollywood").

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#46
I found it interesting that despite the protests in the comments from users who appear to be Iranian, the authors of this paper, who decided on the use of the term "Islamic Golden Age", themselves both appear to be Iranian based on their names (Saatsaz = Watchmaker/Horologist) and the transcription style used (Rezaei).

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#47

Maybe a bit off topic but it's always strange when someone says "Islamic Golden Age" when talking about Iran. Nothing against a specific religion. It's like saying Newton's work came during Christian Golden Age in Europe. The religion had nothing to do with it. In fact, there is a book [1] (in Persian) title "Two Centuries of Silence" that talks about the significant blow to Iran's culture, literature and science aft…

Religions only tolerate progress when it does not interfere with their power. That why religions are cool with math.

Now if you go to physics and biology, oh well depending on the age you were born there is some risk of losing your head.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Persian influence was incredibly important, in fact the Islamic Golden Age is marked by Persian customs being absorbed into daily living with the establishment of the Abbasid caliphate. So if you're feeling like it's taking value away from Persian history, instead, try to see it from the perspective that Persians are a large part of the reason why the Golden Age is even a thing :)

The other day I was watching Neil deGrasse Tyson on Joe Rogan show and he was talking about Islamic Science and how Algebra, Astronomy, etc. come from Islam. I was baffled as an Iranian. I get that there is this anti muslim rhetoric lurking around and these people are trying to fight it. I assume they are well intentioned but in doing so they are doing the same thing that they advocate against. But I like your point…

Ah the famous historians Neil deGrasse Tyson and Joe Rogan...

Better to head to /r/askhistorians with those kinds of questions.

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#49
post #17

That "Islamic Golden Age" is a complete misnomer. It hides the religious diversity of the geography. Many don't know that it took many centuries for the majority of the population of the Iranian plateau to convert to Islam. For a good part of what is referred to as "Islamic Golden Age" Islam was not the dominant religion. Similar story applies to India. Up until 17th century, India was ruled by "muslim" rulers. Shoul…

Islamic Golden Age I find is less about attributing results to Islam, and more just a shorthand to referring to certain parts of the world currently known as "the Islamic World". And yeah the idea is that they were Islamic at that time, and maybe that's not entirely accurate, but it's not as much "this happened specifically because of Islam".

Re: Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age

#50
post #7
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were replacing a West installed dictator... Don't know if it's entirely the Ayatollah's fault here.

It's been 44 years, I think we need to stop giving countries a pass like this, at a certain point, their destiny is their own.

Counties live in the shadow of things that happened thousands of years ago... 44 years is barely a generation.
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