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DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

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Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#281

Post by freediver »

doubtfulcan wrote: post #247
freediver wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi does not collect PII. You can register with a fake email if you want to. Payment information (if any) is collected by Stripe, not Kagi. How would you keep it simple while running a paid search service with non-trivial search cost?

As someone with high privacy focus, just having a user id given by stripe, that stripe then can connect to a real person is a liability. Mullvad allows payments in crypto and their site is accessible as an onion service. I know it definitely adds overhead to do both of those things, though personally I wouldn't mind paying a lot of extra for it. I'm not sure which fraction of users are like me though, I might just be…

Sure, but also note that it took 14 years for Mullvad to reach the point where it can support all those billing methods. Kagi launched less than a year ago with a small bootstrapped team, building a much more complex product.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#282

Post by freeAgent »

p-e-w wrote: post #104
freeAgent wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their privacy policy is here: https://kagi.com/privacy The short answer to your question is: yes, you can use it without linking any real-world identifiers to your search queries. That is explicitly stated in the linked privacy policy. With that said, I guess it's possible that they are violating their own privacy policy. That seems like a bad idea from a legal perspective, and I don't have any reason to suspect they…

Yeah I was actually hoping for an answer that doesn't require blind trust. So the correct answer seems to be "we absolutely could link your searches to your identity, but we promise that we won't; however, you cannot verify that we are keeping that promise". Which I'm afraid is not good enough. To be clear, I'm not saying that they are lying, and indeed I have no reason to suspect they are. But I'm looking for techno…

In that case, you really can't use any hosted search engine because they could be logging all your queries, the time you made them, and associating them with your IP and any other information they can get their hands on. Are you familiar with any search engine that is technically incapable of logging your IP???

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#283

Post by freediver »

pembrook wrote: post #275
vorpalhex wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't pay $20/month for EVERY site and tool. I'm happy to pay the current $120 I do for Kagi, but that's my upper limit. I do have some web tools I pay $250 a year for, and they are significantly more complicated than kagi. With Kagi's new pricing, I will be paying >$300 a year. That is too much. They aren't THAT much better. That is literally more than my beefy dedicated gaming server in a datacenter!

That's basically my point. HN people are wealthy and spend most of their working hours and free time on the internet. They also vehemently hate ad-supported business models. Hell, I probably built my entire career off internet searches. In theory, HN people should have the most to gain from a better search engine, and be the most likely to pay for one. Yet, to your point, the alternatives are free and good enough. Th…

These are the early days of paid search. Kagi laucnhed less than a year ago, after 25 years of humanity being "massaged" with the idea that it is OK for your searches (arguable both the most important and most intimate thing you do online) to be paid by someone else, an unknown 3rd party, usually an advertiser.

The early resistance towards a paid model is to be expected. But if we can learn from the example of YouTube Premium (25M+ subscribers for a product available for free), there are millions of people ready to pay for search today, we just haven't reached them.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#284

Post by dns_snek »

freeAgent wrote: post #282
p-e-w wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was actually hoping for an answer that doesn't require blind trust. So the correct answer seems to be "we absolutely could link your searches to your identity, but we promise that we won't; however, you cannot verify that we are keeping that promise". Which I'm afraid is not good enough. To be clear, I'm not saying that they are lying, and indeed I have no reason to suspect they are. But I'm looking for techno…

In that case, you really can't use any hosted search engine because they could be logging all your queries, the time you made them, and associating them with your IP and any other information they can get their hands on. Are you familiar with any search engine that is technically incapable of logging your IP???

You can use a privacy-focused VPN like Mullvad to conceal your identity from the search engine. In most markets having a credit/debit card requires personal information so there's nothing you can do if they don't provide a privacy-friendly payment alternative.

Anyway, GP's question was simply:

"Can I use Kagi without linking any real-world identifiers (including credit card details) to my search queries in any way?"

And the correct answer is no.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#285

Post by dns_snek »

CameronNemo wrote: post #131
jdironman wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just have a payment method that isn't linked to you?

Do they support any such payment methods? Only Monero and cash come to mind.

No, just debit/credit cards, handled via Stripe IIRC.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#286

Post by freediver »

soco wrote: post #227
DanHulton wrote: post #70

I debated bringing up Kagi at the top level here, since I already commented on it in a reply, but honestly I really want them to succeed and shit like this is why. It's a paid search service, and I'm honestly really happy with that distinction and what it entails. Being paid means that they can deliver on and support features that users can use to get the best results for them, without worrying how those features may…

On a more general note I wonder why everybody is so convinced a paid service will cater to what they want? I can't imagine for my 10$ a month they would implement my bugfix or add that feature I'd love. I'm paying for MS Office or my car as well and boy do I have complaints about them... why would Kagi be any different? The only advantage I can think of is they would be less motivated to search alternative financing…

> I can't imagine for my 10$ a month they would implement my bugfix or add that feature I'd love.

That is exactly what you can expect from Kagi. Here is user submitted feedback marked as 'Done'.

https://kagifeedback.org/?secondaryTag=done

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#287

Post by whythre »

doubtfulcan wrote: post #244
pembrook wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is why advertising will remain the default business model of the mainstream internet and search. HN might possibly be the wealthiest collection of people on the internet. And if we’re complaining about $10-20/month here, there’s certainly no hope for the mass market.

High earning does not necessarily mean wealthy. Rich people in my eyes don't even need to work. People also often gain more money by not spending everything all nilly willy. Someone inheriting a lot of money is more likely to spend it on something superfluous than someone that meticulously grew it over their lifetime.

Saying you aren’t a trust fund baby therefore you aren’t rich is just plain silly.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#288

Post by dns_snek »

pleasantpeasant wrote: post #48

Does no one here use searx? I keep seeing Kagi being pushed and it seems suspicious as Kagi is a subscription based search engine that limits your searches to their paid tiers. Kagi shillposting with their bot accounts?

I doubt it's shillposting, their search is genuinely very good. Better than Google at the very least - which is admittedly a low bar these days, but not every alternative manages that, e.g. Neeva (in my opinion, anyway).

That said, I stopped using it after they increased prices. I'll reconsider it when they figure out how to decrease them and add privacy-friendly payment methods.

I think Kagi is good, but not $25/mo good. People with SV salaries will disagree, though.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#289

Post by vorpalhex »

freediver wrote: post #283
pembrook wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's basically my point. HN people are wealthy and spend most of their working hours and free time on the internet. They also vehemently hate ad-supported business models. Hell, I probably built my entire career off internet searches. In theory, HN people should have the most to gain from a better search engine, and be the most likely to pay for one. Yet, to your point, the alternatives are free and good enough. Th…

These are the early days of paid search. Kagi laucnhed less than a year ago, after 25 years of humanity being "massaged" with the idea that it is OK for your searches (arguable both the most important and most intimate thing you do online) to be paid by someone else, an unknown 3rd party, usually an advertiser. The early resistance towards a paid model is to be expected. But if we can learn from the example of YouTub…

It's not paid vs free, it's $120/year versus $300/year.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#290

Post by kkwtflz »

easygenes wrote: post #127
ianstormtaylor wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying you're wrong, but they grandfathered me on the $10/mo plan with the new pricing changes, and that would cover your usage. I think on the new plans 30 searches a day would come out to $13/month. I know it may sound like a lot (and definitely is a lot for some folks), but when I think about it as literally being the window to a huge amount of knowledge I take in, the fact that it's way less than Adobe produc…

I've tried Kagi as primary search for a few months and used DDG as primary for a long time before that. Recently I default to using phind.com. Don't think they'll be able to stay free forever, but as it is the mix of free access to GPT-4 and the focus on being developer-friendly makes it feel much better than alternatives (perplexity.ai being the closest competitor, but not feeling quite right for me).

> What AI model are you?

> ANSWER

> I am an AI language model powered by OpenAI's GPT-3.5-turbo. My primary purpose is to understand and generate human-like text based on the input I receive. I can perform various tasks, such as answering questions, providing explanations, and even writing code snippets.

Looks like it's not on v4 yet.

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