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DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

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Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#221

Post by ezekiel68 »

freediver wrote: post #75
user3939382 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a big advocate of them, but they broke their promise to grandfather in users on original plans, they doubled their prices, and have everyone counting the number of searches they make. Until they get a reasonable unlimited price plan I wouldn't use them.

As the founder of Kagi, I want to address the recent changes and challenges we have faced. When we made our initial plans, we believed they were both realistic and sustainable. However, the search market has experienced dramatic changes in the past six months, far more than in the previous 16 years. Additionally, we've been confronted with an economic downturn. As a small, bootstrapped business, Kagi has had to make…

I've never used Kagi (only heard of it in this thread) and I'm writing to say, "I believe you." Business models are hard. I can also understand the feelings of the disgruntled; it always sucks to feel like something has been 'taken away'.

Thanks for making paid search for the masses (with funtioning filters, apparently) a reality. By the testimony of many here, your results aren't bad. I'll be giving Kagi a try.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#222

Post by mardifoufs »

justinclift wrote: post #200
IceWreck wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'be been in the search game for a long time. Its time they stop relying on bing and build their own search tech instead. Or mix and match atleast.

Didn't they used to have their own search index infrastructure?

I think they only use their own crawler/index for smart search results. (maybe because those cost a LOT to source from Bing)

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#223

Post by MagicMoonlight »

DanHulton wrote: post #70

I debated bringing up Kagi at the top level here, since I already commented on it in a reply, but honestly I really want them to succeed and shit like this is why. It's a paid search service, and I'm honestly really happy with that distinction and what it entails. Being paid means that they can deliver on and support features that users can use to get the best results for them, without worrying how those features may…

200 searches a month and then having to pay extra per search is a hilariously bad offering.

This isn’t 2008 mobile contracts, I don’t want usage caps for basic functionality.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#224

Post by brynx97 »

manmal wrote: post #214
freediver wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000 searches are included in the $10 plan. Currently you are offered the option to pay for additional searches at 1.5 cents per search. Not ideal we know, but someone needs to pay for those, and the notice you received is courtesy (you can also remove it). How would you handle this differently?

I'd like to be warned before hitting a hard limit, in whichever way. E.g. warning emails ("You've reached 80% of your quota"), or a meter on the search page. From a higher POV, I like GPT-4's smaller time windows way better (x queries within 4 hour window). I hate to be "locked out" of search for a whole week. A few hours wouldn't feel that bad.

Kagi are very open about their policy to submit feedback, bugs, and feature requests at https://kagifeedback.org/. I've not submitted anything Kagi Search, but I've submitted a few features and performance issues/bugs to their Orion feedback. I got replies from Vlad and Kagi employees within 12 hours. Feel free to suggest this as feedback I'd say...

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#225

Post by pembrook »

xlii wrote: post #111
DanHulton wrote: post #70

I debated bringing up Kagi at the top level here, since I already commented on it in a reply, but honestly I really want them to succeed and shit like this is why. It's a paid search service, and I'm honestly really happy with that distinction and what it entails. Being paid means that they can deliver on and support features that users can use to get the best results for them, without worrying how those features may…

I’ve been using Kagi for multiple months and due to advocacy I made few people pay for it too, but I’m completely disheartened by their business model. The whole explanation of the recent “we want to stay afloat” was weird, unexpected (price doubling with my usage, to 20$/mo) and felt untrue (ordinary user doing 30 searches per day?). I felt like it was written by Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler - made sense but also very…

I think this is why advertising will remain the default business model of the mainstream internet and search.

HN might possibly be the wealthiest collection of people on the internet. And if we’re complaining about $10-20/month here, there’s certainly no hope for the mass market.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#227

Post by soco »

DanHulton wrote: post #70

I debated bringing up Kagi at the top level here, since I already commented on it in a reply, but honestly I really want them to succeed and shit like this is why. It's a paid search service, and I'm honestly really happy with that distinction and what it entails. Being paid means that they can deliver on and support features that users can use to get the best results for them, without worrying how those features may…

On a more general note I wonder why everybody is so convinced a paid service will cater to what they want? I can't imagine for my 10$ a month they would implement my bugfix or add that feature I'd love. I'm paying for MS Office or my car as well and boy do I have complaints about them... why would Kagi be any different? The only advantage I can think of is they would be less motivated to search alternative financing - aka advertising. But not even that is a guarantee in the long run...

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#228

Post by emrah »

I really don't see a bright future for search engines. LLMs have exposed a new way to interact with knowledge, which is that, instead of sifting through results/webpages manually, they do that for us and present answers instead.

Sure, they have a ways to go (for example, i think they should provide confidence level for their answers based on how many docs/pages they ran into during training that support a particular answer; show references when asked etc) but the search engine as an interface is obsolete at this point.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#229

Post by yosito »

soco wrote: post #227
DanHulton wrote: post #70

I debated bringing up Kagi at the top level here, since I already commented on it in a reply, but honestly I really want them to succeed and shit like this is why. It's a paid search service, and I'm honestly really happy with that distinction and what it entails. Being paid means that they can deliver on and support features that users can use to get the best results for them, without worrying how those features may…

On a more general note I wonder why everybody is so convinced a paid service will cater to what they want? I can't imagine for my 10$ a month they would implement my bugfix or add that feature I'd love. I'm paying for MS Office or my car as well and boy do I have complaints about them... why would Kagi be any different? The only advantage I can think of is they would be less motivated to search alternative financing…

It's about their business model. If their business is to profit off of satisfying customers then they are going to be motivated to satisfy customers. If their business is to profit off of selling advertisements, then they're going to profit off of selling advertisements.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#230

Post by xlii »

stakhanov wrote: post #175
perihelions wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- "(price doubling with my usage, to 20$/mo) and felt untrue (ordinary user doing 30 searches per day?)" It's like anti-marketing. Target the paying customers most likely to talk a lot about your product – power users with heavy search workloads – and do stuff that makes them unhappy. And that's you, I guess: I'm reading your comment because you're the sort of person who *would* write HN comments reviewing their new…

They grandfathered me in, and in their announcement said that they would do that for all their early users. So, I don't quite understand what happened to the parent commenter there. They also made it very clear on that early-days pricing that it was essentially arbitrary as they just had no idea of how the economics of their business would develop, and that they'd need to revisit it. So it really seems unfair to use…

It depends on your usage. With 200 searches/workday (25/hour) - Kagi set as default search engine - I got following options:

- Stay at Professional - $10 + $49.5 query cost = $59.5 total (495% price increase)

- Use grandfathered - $10 + $37.5 query cost = $47.5 total (375% price increase)

- Use Ultimate plan - $25 + $0 query cost = $25 total (150% price increase)

With absolutely 0 guarantee ultimate plan will be ultimate. Would I pay for search engine 25$? Of course. Does Kagi delivers 25$ of search quality - no. As I mentioned I did metrics. 50% of the queries had to be moved to other search engines, so Kagi simply didn't deliver.

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