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DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

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Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#191

Post by easygenes »

easygenes wrote: post #127
ianstormtaylor wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying you're wrong, but they grandfathered me on the $10/mo plan with the new pricing changes, and that would cover your usage. I think on the new plans 30 searches a day would come out to $13/month. I know it may sound like a lot (and definitely is a lot for some folks), but when I think about it as literally being the window to a huge amount of knowledge I take in, the fact that it's way less than Adobe produc…

I've tried Kagi as primary search for a few months and used DDG as primary for a long time before that. Recently I default to using phind.com. Don't think they'll be able to stay free forever, but as it is the mix of free access to GPT-4 and the focus on being developer-friendly makes it feel much better than alternatives (perplexity.ai being the closest competitor, but not feeling quite right for me).

For developers, I should also mention Bing Chat seems to be in the lead for asking questions like, "In this , can you tell me what this function does ?" (or insert your own question you might ask another developer about some repo). I suspect this is because Microsoft has already done the chunking/embedding/vector-storage for all of Github and Bing Chat is querying a vector database for info about the repo, whereas the other GPT-search-chat offerings aren't there yet.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#192

Post by IceWreck »

mardifoufs wrote: post #69

This might be related to the bing API. I'm pretty sure Bing hiked their API access prices, effective may 1st 2023. Custom search is way more expensive than regular search too. But I'd think duckduckgo wouldn't really be affected by public pricing, and that they have some sort of huge discounts and contracts that would protect them against this. If they pay anything that is, since I thought ddg generated revenue from…

They'be been in the search game for a long time. Its time they stop relying on bing and build their own search tech instead. Or mix and match atleast.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#193

Post by freediver »

nltrf wrote: post #167
DanHulton wrote: post #70

I debated bringing up Kagi at the top level here, since I already commented on it in a reply, but honestly I really want them to succeed and shit like this is why. It's a paid search service, and I'm honestly really happy with that distinction and what it entails. Being paid means that they can deliver on and support features that users can use to get the best results for them, without worrying how those features may…

I would use them if you could pay anonymously. Using a search engine where every query is tied to my credit card is not for me.

Searches are not tied to an account, Kagi does not even log searches. [1]

What would be the point when your search history would just be a liability? That is the whole point of the paid search business model.

[1] https://kagi.com/privacy

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#194

Post by freediver »

kid64 wrote: post #188

Who in their right mind would continue to rely on Kagi after the bait and switch? How many more "realities of the search market" will they need to learn? It amazes me that anybody would accept such an egregious betrayal, whether or not they can afford the new pricing.

Sorry that you feel that way, but there was no bait and switch, just reality of search today.

I expanded on it more here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35683834

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#195

Post by freediver »

eitland wrote: post #180
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered or are you working on building your own index? I'm not in the space, but that seems to me like the natural way to avoid having your company brought down on a whim by Microsoft, in the long term.

... or even partnering with someone like search.marginalia.nu? I'm actually serious. At least I think I check Marginalia more often than bing or ddg or google.

We actually do partner with Marginalia, through our Teclis index. Marginalia is an amazing project and I hope it continues to grow.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#196

Post by mardifoufs »

mardifoufs wrote: post #69

This might be related to the bing API. I'm pretty sure Bing hiked their API access prices, effective may 1st 2023. Custom search is way more expensive than regular search too. But I'd think duckduckgo wouldn't really be affected by public pricing, and that they have some sort of huge discounts and contracts that would protect them against this. If they pay anything that is, since I thought ddg generated revenue from…

After more research, I'm almost certain that they use the syndicated bing search instead of just using the API. Meaning they earn revenue for pure search, but I'm not sure if they still have to pay for some advanced parts of the API (filtering, autocomplete, etc). There's also no way to check if the revenue share dropped, which could be make sense considering how the price hike for the API. So take my comment with a grain of salt!

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#197

Post by AnonCoward42 »

stakhanov wrote: post #169
xlii wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been using Kagi for multiple months and due to advocacy I made few people pay for it too, but I’m completely disheartened by their business model. The whole explanation of the recent “we want to stay afloat” was weird, unexpected (price doubling with my usage, to 20$/mo) and felt untrue (ordinary user doing 30 searches per day?). I felt like it was written by Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler - made sense but also very…

> The whole explanation of the recent “we want to stay afloat” was weird I didn't find that weird at all: They were overly optimistic, both on how many people they'd be able to recruit for a paid service, and on the economics of how many searches these people do. I'd be willing to bet that those skew heavily in the direction of power users and knowledge workers using search professionally, so they probably do a lot o…

> [...] A good search engine is an investment that could pay phenomenal dividends for me, allowing me to make better decisions for my business by having better information as input. [...]

It sounds a bit like the use case of ChatGPT/BingAI. Depending on your specific use case it might be the wrong fit - especially if you want to look up PI - however it is excellent as a rubberduck/idea provider.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#198

Post by weswilson »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #58
explorer83 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I feel all search engines have had declining quality for some time now. Not sure if it's unintended consequence of fighting bots. Or unintended consequence of trying to remove some content from the results. I'm assuming it's unintentional.

it's intentional as a result of them making money off showing you bad results (ads) after all, you aren't paying them

I feel like this is a big reason for people wanting to using ChatGPT (LLM's in general) for search results.

Search engine quality has declined due to ads/sponsored results and the adversarial nature of SEO driving the signal-to-noise ratio into the ground. So now people are using ChatGPT to lookup the information they'd normally use a search engine for but don't want to wade through the tens of sponsored posts to get to something useful.

The idea of LLM's taking over search is pretty gloomy to me, because it destroys the discoverability of unique information. Sites that have expert information often leads you down the rabbit hole and introduces you to new information. With LLM's you will get 'mean reverted' results and won't be introduced to that information that sparks curiosity.

On the other hand, it's pretty hard to find those nuggets with search engines these days. Years ago, you'd be able to just Google for the answer. Now you have to go to specific sites to search those knowledge bases.

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#199

Post by bt1a »

mardifoufs wrote: post #69

This might be related to the bing API. I'm pretty sure Bing hiked their API access prices, effective may 1st 2023. Custom search is way more expensive than regular search too. But I'd think duckduckgo wouldn't really be affected by public pricing, and that they have some sort of huge discounts and contracts that would protect them against this. If they pay anything that is, since I thought ddg generated revenue from…

DDG is absolutely affected by Bing price hikes. Because M$ has raised the price here, DDG has had to lower the quality of their service. This will shift a (small) portion of those DDG users to Bing (lol).

Re: DuckDuckGo removed the ability to filter search results

#200

Post by justinclift »

IceWreck wrote: post #192
mardifoufs wrote: post #69

This might be related to the bing API. I'm pretty sure Bing hiked their API access prices, effective may 1st 2023. Custom search is way more expensive than regular search too. But I'd think duckduckgo wouldn't really be affected by public pricing, and that they have some sort of huge discounts and contracts that would protect them against this. If they pay anything that is, since I thought ddg generated revenue from…

They'be been in the search game for a long time. Its time they stop relying on bing and build their own search tech instead. Or mix and match atleast.

Didn't they used to have their own search index infrastructure?
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