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Russia killed its tech industry

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Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#201

Post by ghostwriter »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #182
ghostwriter wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a MSU CS alumni I can tell you, it is pretty clear the brighter, the more likely to leave. How does your alumni status’ anecdotal evidence bring clarity on the matter of the predominant intellectual capacity of those who’re leaving Russia? Aren’t there any other MSU graduates who consider themselves as bright as your CS peers and yourself, and who are staying in? What’s the respective left/stayed ratio among the…

I can add one more data point to it as MIPT graduate. Number of people among MIPT, MSU and HSE graduates I know personally who emigrated in the past 12 months is remarkable. It’s somewhat similar to early 1990s when whole labs were relocating to the West.

What's the ratio of those who left to those who graduated and stayed?

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#202

Post by yogthos »

koonsolo wrote: post #192
yogthos wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you should read the page you linked

Born in Ukraine, mom was Ukrainian, dad was born in Belarus. Your point? It clearly states he was born and raised in Ukraine.

The same point that's been explained to you in detail in this very thread.

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#203

Post by ghostwriter »

lostmsu wrote: post #195
ghostwriter wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a MSU CS alumni I can tell you, it is pretty clear the brighter, the more likely to leave. How does your alumni status’ anecdotal evidence bring clarity on the matter of the predominant intellectual capacity of those who’re leaving Russia? Aren’t there any other MSU graduates who consider themselves as bright as your CS peers and yourself, and who are staying in? What’s the respective left/stayed ratio among the…

Basically everyone (that would be 10+ people) I know who was still staying back left after Russia unleashed full scale war with the exception of the ones that have to care for very old relatives. There are two people who stayed for other reasons, and they aren't brighter than average peers. Prior to the war maybe slightly under 50% stayed. Now it is under 10%.

> Prior to the war maybe slightly under 50% stayed. Now it is under 10%.

Just to clarify your point, are you suggesting that only 10% of MSU gradutes are staying in Russia after receiving their respective degrees, or are these the numbers among specific people with specific degrees you know personally?

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#204

Post by Teodorz »

dimaaan wrote: post #109
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #13

I find it heartbreaking. I grew up in the Cold War (my father was in the CIA). Russians were considered brutish, non-creative, and untrustworthy. Then, the Berlin Wall came down, and everything changed. I started to see amazing creativity come from Russia. Music, technology, art, actors, dance, all kinds of stuff. I loved working with Russian engineers. They were some of the best techs I'd worked with. I have a lot o…

Thank you for that kind of words. It's so rare nowadays. While i agree with technology, art (painters, literature), dance (ballet), i didn't think Russia brings much to the worlds of music. Curious what is in you iTunes rotation?

Also, Russian rock bands are really good if you know the language. The words are deep and emotional and far from banal standards.

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#206

Post by cultofmetatron »

capableweb wrote: post #66
biorach wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries You mean America was doing the defending? That's hilarious. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... And then there's the horror show of American intervention in South East Asia, and then there's the meddle, I mean Middle East.

The US has been proven to meddle in democratic elections in every single continent, except Africa I think, at this point. But meddling in Africa will surely be made public at one point or another.

> But meddling in Africa will surely be made public at one point or another.

The french has most of africa on lockdown in that regard

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#207

Post by iavael »

koonsolo wrote: post #143
ajuc wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has nukes, it doesn't matter how much we drain its military, it can just freeze the war, go back and rebuild. Let's say it takes 10 years. It's not solving the issue, just pushing it back to reappear later. On the other hand a decisive win for Ukraine followed by western-integration success story there - would directly contradict Putin's core internal justification for keeping his power (west is lying ,democra…

Why would a quick win of Ukraine suddenly change the political landscape in Russia? Russians don't protest now, so why would they suddenly start doing that? However, a weak Russia cannot keep regions that want to break away. Russia as we know it now is not going to exist anymore. Not because they would suddenly overthrow the current government (which they won't). But because plenty of 'friendly' neighbor states might…

There's not many regions in Russia that would really break away.

If we speak about regions with russian majority then it's unlikely because despite Russia being very big russian ethnicity culturally is quite uniform. And as for other ethnicities then for most of them it's not economically or politically viable to separate: either their country will become enclaves surrounded by large mass of russian territory or will occupy territory with harsh environment where it would be hard even in the long run to establish sustainable modern economy without tight economical integration with russian territories.

So if we speak about regions with reasonable potential to break away then they are republics in Northern Caucasus and maybe Tyva. And that not very much.

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#208

Post by asats »

ghostwriter wrote: post #200
asats wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not IQ test the million people on the border and I have no objective way to evaluate and compare the brightness of the people that have left vs the rosatom engineers, if that's what you're asking for. "Biased simplification of reality" sounds like a description of essentially any opinion, we are all biased and reality is too complex to argue about without simplifications, so that's not a great argument. Anythin…

> we are all biased and reality is too complex to argue about without simplifications, so that's not a great argument. However it's a good argument for distinguishing between simplifications introduced by feelings and the ones introduced by omission while trying impartial judgement, as these simplification premises would have different value to your listeners. > Do you really think that a loss of that million is insi…

>However it's a good argument for distinguishing between simplifications introduced by feelings

It's not based on my feelings but on the personal experience and some research I did. All the smartest people I personally know and worked with have left the country. I also looked up the top 10 AI researchers at Yandex, and out of the ten I looked at only one was is still in Russia, that's a 90% loss for the top talent in the hottest industry at the (arguably) most innovative company in the country.

>We must first establish and agree on the dimension by which you're willing to evaluate that significance

Sure thing, let's take two, scientists and entrepreneurs as their accomplishments are the easiest to quantify. The unit of measurement would be the influential papers written for scientists (measured by the number of citations) and for the entrepreneurs the market cap of the companies they started, obviously both of those are not perfect metrics but they generally track with the value created.

Do you think the million people like the "MIPT, MSU and HSE graduates" that have left the country that the other guys are mentioning will do better on those dimensions versus the ones staying at rosatom/roskosmos/etc?

Re: Russia killed its tech industry

#210

Post by iavael »

timonoko wrote: post #69
badpun wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about sending Gagarin to space in the 1950s? Was that tech developed in the Gulags as well?

Very much so. But there was hierarchy. Top scientist had all the freedoms. You can clearly see in the Netflix-movie that cosmonauts were living in a creepy military camp, while american astronauts drove home to their family after hard day of space flying.

Well... first cosmonaut candidates (and many after that) were military pilots. So no wonder that they lived in military camp.

Also about appointing first cosmonaut by looks is not something strange. After all strict selections there's almost no difference among final candidates in health condition, skills or cognitive abilities. They are all as healthy as human can be and quite smart and trained. So final pick by these criterias would be pretty random anyway (even now for modern candidates it still is). And given that sending first human in space was a big deal about political prestige it's no wonder that it was made by the looks of candidates.

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