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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#561

Post by artdigital »

kaba0 wrote: post #85
edandersen wrote: post #76

I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!

What’s good about physical SIMs? I do like apple for daring to improve the status quo there, so I want my European Edition with only e-simsz

Recently moved to a new country (non-EU). The carrier I'm using does not offer eSIM and shipped me a physical SIM card. This is not an outlier, I have a couple of physical SIM cards, some US, that I wouldn't be able to use if the phone was eSIM only, like the recent US iPhone.

Also moving a eSIM from iOS device to non-iOS device (for example to plug into my secondary Android) is a massive PITA. I always have to re-issue the SIM which I often can't do and need to jumps through customer support queries and hoops. My current provider back home doesn't even give me the option to do it while abroad and support told me to come back for a day, then finish the eSIM reissuing application, so I'm stuck with the physical SIM anyway.

eSIMs will be great one day, but that day is not now. I much rather pop the SIM out of phone 1 and move it into phone 2, or iPad when I want, than wait hours (or sometimes days) to get a new eSIM approved, and repeat that process every single time I want to move a connection to another device

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#562

Post by HopenHeyHi »

worble wrote: post #448
kaba0 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s good about physical SIMs? I do like apple for daring to improve the status quo there, so I want my European Edition with only e-simsz

I know nothing about esims, what makes them so much better than a physical sim? I can't say I have any major qualms with what I have right now, I just shove it in my phone and forget about it.

I am in Japan. I am using some app called Ubigi.

When I landed I made a one off 400 yen payment, like tree fiffdy or something, and immediately had data working right at the airport for the rest of the month. Apple Pay, one off, no contracts, no queues, no diligent service people. It saved probably 1 hour of my life! And it is somehow significantly cheaper (depends on the country, ymmv).

Frankly I pity people who get off a long flight and wait in line to get an overpriced piece of plastic to stick in their phones like it is 1823.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#563

Post by simondotau »

malermeister wrote: post #408
simondotau wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don’t buy an iPhone. I think it’s ridiculous that we are asking the government to save us from our own choices. As much as you and I don’t like it, what Apple is doing is perfectly legal. And as much as you or I might support a change in the law, you’re not going to get my support if the legislation is truly universal and not just a narrow-band targeting of a single company for developing an ecosystem which reso…

It's not "the government saving us from our own choices". It's us asking our democratically elected government to stop a giant corporation from telling us what to do with our own devices.

I like how you say that as though I hadn't already considered that point. Would it be too much to ask to perhaps give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm already aware of all of the major arguments for why Apple should allow sideloading?

Yes it's your device, but it's not your software. You don't own the software. And it's the software which is stopping you from doing what you want.

Really though I'm just saying that I resent arguments that fail to provide anything resembling a modicum of consistency around this. As far as I'm concerned, as long as Sony is allowed to keep the PlayStation locked down, Apple should have equal right to keep the iPhone locked down. And if you, the consumer, doesn't like it, don't buy a PlayStation. I realise this comes across as a trite, throwaway thing to say, but I absolutely mean it. It is, in my opinion, a slam dunk argument.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#564

Post by alerighi »

josephcsible wrote: post #2

Hasn't Apple always said the reason they don't allow sideloading was that it'd be impossible without compromising security? So are they claiming their European iDevices won't be secure anymore, or are they admitting they were lying before and that the real reason was nothing but greed?

The claim is nonsense. If it was true Android devices would be full of malware, that is clearly not the case.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#565

Post by stefan_ »

snemvalts wrote: post #237
jpalomaki wrote: post #180

I think Apple has also done good things with their strict app store policies (from my consumer point of view). Apple has been for example putting limits on data collection and tracking. The main mechanism is to kick apps out from Apps store if they don't play by the rules. I'm worried that side loading will be a step back here. Strong players, like Facebook, may just take their app away from the official store and di…

Apple's security and data collection argument for their walled garden is null and void. https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2023/02/27/beware-rogue-2fa... They don't look at API calls made by the apps. How can they be your sure of the security then? Only after this was published were the apps removed.

Every jailbreak ever has been on the magical secure "app store", too. It is really weird that people on here of all places believe in this garbage performative "app phrenology" they are doing over there.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#566

Post by candiddevmike »

kiicia wrote: post #520
heavyset_go wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's ban of all browsers but Safari turned out to be the main barrier preventing progressive web apps from being viable, deepening the duopoly power of themselves and Google, because Apple refuses to implement basic browser standards that are necessary for PWAs. And then when they do implement similar browser standards, they don't follow any web standards, they instead make their own proprietary bespoke web standa…

you seem to be completely sure that everyone loves and wants pwa newsflash: many users hate pwa, they prefer native apps

Most users don't know WTF a PWA is, let alone have an opinion of them.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#567

Post by alerighi »

miramba wrote: post #47
superkuh wrote: post #14

Even if this is small progress the headlines and framing of the story are still doublespeak. Installing applications on your computer is the normal state of things. Walled gardens and not having control of your computer is the new weird thing. The word "sideloading" is a feudal concept and it's unquestioned use is dangerous for society. Properly stated this story title is, "Installing applications on iOS 17 might be…

I used to think the same way, but not anymore. The amount and variety of attacks on the devices have increased too much in the last years. The device could be encrypted, money could be stolen, some malware could sit silently and do surveillance for who knows. I always wanted to install software on my iPhone without the manufacturing company deciding what I can and can not have (according to californian standards!), b…

But it's an user choice! Same happens on Android. There is a settings that you have to enable to install applications from other sources.

This is pure nonsense... giving user more choices is never a bad thing.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#568

Post by Terretta »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #540
hooby wrote: post #143

I think the central question here is: .) whether you buy a phone as a piece of hardware and then own that hardware - which gives you certain rights regarding the usage of that owned hardware or .) whether you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service, and are basically "lent" a piece of hardware that you have no ownership rights over. All the other stuff about walled gardens, monopoli…

Of course you own the hardware; you have the right to do whatever you want to it. If you want to use iPhones for target practice, have at it. You don't have the right to insist the manufacturer make it easy for you: your imagination about the uses to which the hardware could be put doesn't oblige the seller.

Just like a PS5.

No, the iPhone and iPad are appliances, not general computing, forcing division between hardware, firmware, and software is a technical design decision that prevents users from choosing a fully vertically integrated appliance device.

People who choose consoles over building PCs, and pick iPhones over tinkerable Android, have a right to that choice, and corporations have a right to market to them.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#569

Post by aikinai »

wiseowise wrote: post #402
aikinai wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downsides are the obvious; security and privacy are better protected, malware is much harder to distribute and easier to shut down, fraud is more difficult. You can absolutely disagree with the trade off, but pretending like it’s purely greed is obviously disingenuous.

> The downsides are the obvious; security and privacy are better protected, malware is much harder to distribute and easier to shut down, fraud is more difficult. Is that so? https://lifehacker.com/great-now-the-apple-app-store-has-mal...

If the App Store had zero impact on the proliferation of malware, finding malware in the App Store wouldn’t be a news story in 2022. It would be well-known and expected to be teeming with just as much malware as the open Internet for the past fifteen years.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#570

Post by Cort3z »

76SlashDolphin wrote: post #350
vore wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your old phone was also eSIM compatible, you can just download the eSIM from your carrier like you would if you moved to any other phone.

But you would need to somehow get in touch with said carrier. Granted, you could probably do that over WiFi but if my phone breaks when, say, I'm out camping I'm SoL.

Would you bring a spare phone then? Sounds implausible. If you did, and it’s an emergency you can use a phone without a sim at all with the emergency network.
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