iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#461

Post by ivlad » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 10:25 AM UTC

YeBanKo wrote: post #334

heywoodlh wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have much choice I hope I don't come across as snarky -- I am genuinely curious -- but why don't you have a choice? Are you unable to contact friends, family, etc. any other way outside of FB? The phrasing seems so strong, I am second guessing if I am just privileged/lucky (location, friend/family circumstances, etc?) to be off of social media but still have friends and family that I stay connected to. EDIT…

Here is an example: we are invited to my kid’s friend’s birthday. They manage the event on facebook. They had to change location and time couple of times already. We don’t want to miss it and alternatives to facebook just aren’t any better. Sometimes it’s just convenient.

Calendar invites are cross-platform and reasonably convenient. You don’t even need to subscribe to someone’s calendar, updates are vCalendar files sent over email. At least iOS and Outlook parse your inbox for vCalendar files and may update the accepted event automatically.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#462

Post by phatfish » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 10:25 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #316

toyg wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is law and there is the spirit of the law. The ECJ can be pretty fast when they feel someone is taking the piss.

The cookie popups can be very annoying and confusing and they didn't do anything about that.

Recently I've noticed more sites providing a visible "Deny All" button, rather than the dark pattern of going through and unchecking 5, 10, 50 tracking cookies individually, or having to dig out a button hidden somewhere.

I assume this was how it was intended to function, but the kind people that run internet websites intentionally made it more difficult.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#463

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 10:25 AM UTC

ScoobleDoodle wrote: post #238

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The prime example is that apple gives apps unfettered access to network connections. (…) You cannot even find out what apps are doing. Settings -> Privacy & Security -> App Privacy Report It shows you per application what data they are accessing, which sensors they are accessing and which domains the app is contacting. It also reports when they were doing this and how often. You can even export this data as a JSON…

Apparently first one has to turn it on to start gathering the usage data. I just turned it on and it started with no data. So I’ll see how it work’s going forward. Thank you for sharing.

[deleted]

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#464

Post by synecdoche » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 10:25 AM UTC

mnd999 wrote: post #442

hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer to make my own choice over others "care".

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#465

Post by criddell » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 10:25 AM UTC

anonzzzies wrote: post #356

fortuna86 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this, I haven't seen this. Maybe a smart phone was a status symbol 10 years ago, they are just commodities today.

I do recognise it; large iPhones and Apple Watches are still about twice the price of the competitor. And people with Android phones are considered poor here.

If you keep your phone 3 years, then that phone costs you a dollar or two per day and that’s within reach of many people. Lots of us keep the phone much longer than that and if you do plan on keeping the phone for a long time, Apple has a better reputation for supporting 5 year old devices than any budget Android maker. Apple’s hardware also has a pretty strong resale value. Apple phones are probably less expensive overall than lots of Android phones.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#466

Post by KyeRussell » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 10:26 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #452

PlutoIsAPlanet wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you cannot use a third party browser, since they forbid that (all are Safari based) I think this has turned out to be the current barrier in preventing Google from completing taking over the web standards space.

Apple's ban of all browsers but Safari turned out to be the main barrier preventing progressive web apps from being viable, deepening the duopoly power of themselves and Google, because Apple refuses to implement basic browser standards that are necessary for PWAs. And then when they do implement similar browser standards, they don't follow any web standards, they instead make their own proprietary bespoke web standa…

You’re so dead set on “winning” that you’ve completely talked past the point that was being made.

The commenter was not even saying that their point justifies Safari being the only browser engine available on iOS. They were making a specific point. If you don’t want to talk to that point, maybe try another thread.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#467

Post by jakub_jo » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 10:26 AM UTC

charcircuit wrote: post #118

awestroke wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought iPhone apps were sandboxed, making malware impossible?

That limits what they can do, but it doesn't mean they can't do anything malicious. Someone could make a YouTube app which removes ads, but steals your session so that they can viewbot or spam comment sections with legit accounts.

This is something which would also work using an app store app -- where's the app store benefit in your point?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#468

Post by WastingMyTime89 » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 10:26 AM UTC

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #163

hooby wrote: post #143

I think the central question here is: .) whether you buy a phone as a piece of hardware and then own that hardware - which gives you certain rights regarding the usage of that owned hardware or .) whether you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service, and are basically "lent" a piece of hardware that you have no ownership rights over. All the other stuff about walled gardens, monopoli…

Yes. The HN crowd is overcomplicating the issue, and Apple has as much a right as an individual to design their platform as they wish. We like to talk about giving businesses the freedom to build the products that they want and keeping regulators out of the picture and instead letting people vote with their money, yet when people actually vote with their money to buy Apple products precisely for how they are built, w…

> and Apple has as much a right as an individual to design their platform as they wish.

Well, no, actually they don’t. The EU just passed a law mandating competition on platforms when it comes to store because as often in a duopoly the ability of people to vote with their money is significantly limited. That decidedly solves this question.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#469

Post by Cthulhu_ » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 10:27 AM UTC

hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

> the browser and its sandbox.

A lot of viruses (and jailbreaks on iOS amongst others) are distributed via this browser / sandbox; it's only secure in theory and it took decades to get to that point.

Sure (before the Rust evangelists swoop in), part of that was due to using unsafe languages; part was due to extension frameworks that had too much power (ActiveX, which was even used to update your operating system, I can't fathom why they thought that was a good idea). But it'll take many more years of zero incidents, jailbreaks, etc before I'd trust the browser over Apple's app sandboxing and app review and distribution approach.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#470

Post by KyeRussell » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 10:27 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #312

hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

I sometimes feel that some HN folks need to consider a job inside EU committees. It's probably boring work, but even if you spend 10% of your time in meetings and the remainder on a secret side project, you will be doing society a great service.

This is a hilarious instance of the “I could build that in a weekend” mindset.