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Telegram Web Apps for Bots

core.telegram.org

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Re: Telegram Web Apps for Bots

#111

Post by NayamAmarshe »

emptysongglass wrote: post #102
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly tired of everyone spreading all this misinformation about telegram and all these assumptions that lead everyone nowhere. 1. SIM Swap is a physical device security issue, not something that telegram or any other app for that matter, is responsible for. Telegram already provides cloud password, comments like these wouldn't ever mention it. 2. Telegram using cloud encryption instead of E2EE by default does…

I really don't care if people use Signal but as a Telegram user I'm exhausted by this hatefest that appears every time Telegram announces a new release. Moxie is a terrible source because he very recently was the CEO of Signal, a competitor, and uses words like "plaintext" as a misleading perjorative for any encryption not E2EE. If you want and need E2EE please God use some other messenger but why don't we stick to t…

I believe most people here use WhatsApp and they've gotten comfortable enough with the idea of trusting Facebook (even when nobody ever should if they respect themselves as a user).

This is proven by the fact that posts about WhatsApp, a closed source app from Facebook where you can never even confirm any of their security claims, gets a lot of praise compared to an open source app with a strong privacy and no-data-selling track record. Even here in the comments you can see people claiming about WhatsApp's E2EE when in reality they cannot prove it.

Telegram on the other hand has been audited multiple times by independent researchers and yet somehow, that's not enough. Apparently, symmetric encryption is considered plain-text these days and some closed source unverified implementation of E2EE as private and secure.

The world is a weird place.

Re: Telegram Web Apps for Bots

#112

Post by AdrenalinMd »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #109
AdrenalinMd wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument regarding "source code" is misleading and not entirely relevant. It's worth noting that Telegram's backend is also closed source, yet its supporters often overlook this fact. Decompiling and inspecting mobile apps is relatively simple, so if there were any issues with the WhatsApp client, they would likely have been uncovered already. As for Telegram, its messages are stored in plain text on their server…

> It's worth noting that Telegram's backend is also closed source, yet its supporters often overlook this fact. Backend is never verifiable. It's a moot point. Signal's backend is open source yet they always release the sources late. Their servers were running entirely different code for a year and they even injected some cryptocurrency related features which weren't reflected in the source code. Backend is always un…

My point is precisely this: With robust end-to-end encryption in place, there's no need to rely on the trustworthiness of the backend. Unfortunately, Telegram lacks this feature, making it untrustworthy.

Even with Telegram's encryption, messages can be compromised through a straightforward SIM swap. This means that their encryption is essentially irrelevant since messages can be read without needing an encryption key from the client.

I recommend checking out Moxie Marlinspike's Twitter thread on this topic for further insight. You can find the link I previously shared in another thread.

Re: Telegram Web Apps for Bots

#113

Post by Moldoteck »

skrowl wrote: post #13
Moldoteck wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by default chats are not e2e encrypted. And even if you want e2e, it's not syncing between devices. Also groups are not e2e. Signal is cooler for encryption, heck, even fb messenger or Whatsapp. Featurewise yes, telegram is miles ahead

> it's not syncing between devices > Signal is cooler Clearly you haven't tried using Signal on multiple devices. It's terrible currently. Telegram / WhatsApp / etc work great on multiple devices.

I said it's cooler for encrypted stuff compared to telegram not for features/ux. I use both and I'm fully aware telegram ux and easy of inter device operation is superior(well, they have some minor ux problems because of Premium but still, these are minor)

Re: Telegram Web Apps for Bots

#114

Post by Moldoteck »

AdrenalinMd wrote: post #60

Be cautious when using Telegram for important matters. I recently examined a situation where confidential messages from high-ranking Moldovan officials were leaked through Telegram. Unlike WhatsApp and Signal, which offer end-to-end encryption by default, protecting your messages even in case of a SIM swap, Telegram does not offer the same level of security. A SIM swap or a breach in their system can lead to message…

Just to add context, I think/suppose this happened because of some hijacking of a cookie with logged in web telegram. I've seen multiple complaints of people that got hacked because they used some sort of telegram web login. Problems related to e2e enc are valid though

Re: Telegram Web Apps for Bots

#115

Post by TheFreim »

xeonax wrote: post #96
TheFreim wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What game server? Did you write the telegram integration plugin/script yourself?

Yes, I am making a game. Its game server, is integrated into discord as well as telegram.

Ahh, I thought you meant you operated a server for another game (I've hosted many over the years so that's what I first think of). What is the game you are making?

Re: Telegram Web Apps for Bots

#116

Post by NayamAmarshe »

AdrenalinMd wrote: post #112
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's worth noting that Telegram's backend is also closed source, yet its supporters often overlook this fact. Backend is never verifiable. It's a moot point. Signal's backend is open source yet they always release the sources late. Their servers were running entirely different code for a year and they even injected some cryptocurrency related features which weren't reflected in the source code. Backend is always un…

My point is precisely this: With robust end-to-end encryption in place, there's no need to rely on the trustworthiness of the backend. Unfortunately, Telegram lacks this feature, making it untrustworthy. Even with Telegram's encryption, messages can be compromised through a straightforward SIM swap. This means that their encryption is essentially irrelevant since messages can be read without needing an encryption key…

> With robust end-to-end encryption in place, there's no need to rely on the trustworthiness of the backend

Actually there is. The backend transferring information is the sole point of failure. While the message content might be secure, nothing other than that ever is. In fact, an E2EE app could send unencrypted messages in the payload or the private keys and you still wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

This is why I question WhatsApp's effectiveness in the first place.

> Even with Telegram's encryption, messages can be compromised through a straightforward SIM swap

2FA - Cloud Passwords have existed for a long time. Most people fail to mention it when mentioning SIM swap, which is a physical device security issue, a responsibility of the user.

> I recommend checking out Moxie Marlinspike's Twitter thread on this topic for further insight.

I'm sorry but I consider that misinformation at worst and propaganda at best.

He thinks that any encryption that's not his, is 'plain-text'. On top of that, he's very much the reason why Signal was never released on F-Droid. He's got some weird biases against other tech that he can go to any lengths to defend it.

Not only are his Twitter threads loaded with bias but the language he chooses to use, I'd consider that plain misinformation. He does not have any authority to claim things he can't prove.

Re: Telegram Web Apps for Bots

#117

Post by wraptile »

lucasverra wrote: post #72
Mxbonn wrote: post #71

For me, Midjourney was the killer app which showed that chat apps can be good interfaces for products. It takes away many UI development costs and problems and allows you to focus on the product/backend.

is discord the best way to execute midjourney ?

Clearly no as Midjourney is working on a web UI that'll be out this year. Personally, I'm turned off by Discord's UX and one of the main reasons I don't use midjourney.

Re: Telegram Web Apps for Bots

#118

Post by AdrenalinMd »

vezycash wrote: post #61
AdrenalinMd wrote: post #60

Be cautious when using Telegram for important matters. I recently examined a situation where confidential messages from high-ranking Moldovan officials were leaked through Telegram. Unlike WhatsApp and Signal, which offer end-to-end encryption by default, protecting your messages even in case of a SIM swap, Telegram does not offer the same level of security. A SIM swap or a breach in their system can lead to message…

For sim swap issue, create a cloud password.

Sure thing. But thinking about security in depth, default E2E encryption is an additional layer of security that is lacking in Telegram.

Re: Telegram Web Apps for Bots

#119

Post by Version467 »

omeid2 wrote: post #64
Version467 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my immediate thought when they released chatgpt plugins. They had this little demo where it generated a recipe, pulled the calories from wolfram alpha and then generated a one click to order link for doordash. It's no stretch of the imagination that this will replace many, if not most app ui's. For the time being there's still some programs that are much better off with a dedicated interface, but the future…

Will natural language be a predominate form of interface in the near future? Absolutely yes. But will it replace majority of interface? I am doubtful. The reason for my doubt is that if you look around yourself; you will see a variety of amazing human computer and human machine interfaces, because no single interface has been universally suitable and more importantly the most or even reasonably efficient for all use…

Uh, I might have a language barrier here. Doesn't predominate imply a majority?

But besides this I do see your point. Mechanical interaction with buttons, switches, dials and the like offer a great interface and they haven't been universally replaced by touch screens for a reason.

I was thinking more of the ubiquity of specialised phone apps. I checked my phone just now and I have apps for public transport (i.e. train tickets and routes), taxis/ubers, multiple apps for ordering food, fitness/workout tracking, todo apps, calendars, smart home control, weather, general search, news and lots more. I'd say that most uses of most of those apps would be more convenient through a single chat like interface.

Re: Telegram Web Apps for Bots

#120

Post by Self-Perfection »

ivanmontillam wrote: post #97

This feature is such a killer. I love it. WhatsApp bots are overly simplistic. I'm not talking about specific implementations where bots only accept simple strings or just integer numbers (your typical city bot), I know that's not WhatsApp's fault. It's just that WhatsApp bot capabilities have these 1.0 vibes. Bots that just chat and aren't rich anyhow like Telegram ones. WhatsApp bots don't come close, and WhatsApp…

I had to start WhatsApp a year ago due to network effect. Though I despise the idea of communication network that forbids you from creating alternative clients.

At least I managed to vent the steam off by setting an image that asks to write to me via Telegram instead as my avatar. You can find it here: https://gist.github.com/Self-Perfection/f470d5120f938221769d.... The image is in SVG format, so you can customize it to your liking.

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