Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#81

Post by Ekaros » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

cjbprime wrote: post #11

It's okay; software engineering isn't real either. (In many countries, the word "engineer" is regulated -- you can't call yourself an engineer without professional qualifications and oversight.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_...

I believe that there can be real software engineering. And in many places it has uses.

But how most of the sotfware done, is not really engineered.

And I think we might do better if we were more rigorous with what is being build, probably slower, but better off and lot of it could be replicated for close enough use cases.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#82

Post by Ekaros » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 4:57 PM UTC

tkiolp4 wrote: post #8

Prompt Engineer is the new Scrum Master.

Actually, Prompt Masters would be lot better term.

And it would work in both common meanings in current usage.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#83

Post by codegeek » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 4:58 PM UTC

cloudking wrote: post #74

Has anyone solved a real business problem with LLMs that they couldn't solve as efficiently before?

Funny. I used to ask the same question about blockchains.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#84

Post by ResearchCode » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 4:59 PM UTC

Yes. It requires much less engineering than a Google Search, and there are no Google Search Engineers.

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#85

Post by Ekaros » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 5:00 PM UTC

iamwil wrote: post #9

Think of it more as "prompt-fu", akin to "google-fu"--or how to google. You do have to know how to talk to an LLM, and it will be important. But it's not so much engineering, as we come to think of it in software traditionally. I wouldn't get hung up on the name, but just see it for what it is--a bad name for something we'll need to learn to be effective. It won't go away entirely, but will be mitigated to be less im…

Specially with image generation and like I can believe that there is certain amount of learning and practise to get exactly the results you want and how different inputs affect output. And then also picking up right model for right job.

Not that it is engineering, but there is lot of uses where it doesn't match either...

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#86

Post by netdur » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 5:00 PM UTC

I have seen people doing multi steps prompting SD to get exact image they wants, that includes textual inversion, merging models, creating lora, manipulate prompt weights, in/out painting, this is a serious job like graphic designer but with less imagination and more wizarding, now SD created open source LLM, I expect the same to happen

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#87

Post by 908B64B197 » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 5:01 PM UTC

cjbprime wrote: post #11

It's okay; software engineering isn't real either. (In many countries, the word "engineer" is regulated -- you can't call yourself an engineer without professional qualifications and oversight.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_...

> It's okay; software engineering isn't real either.

> (In many countries, the word "engineer" is regulated -- you can't call yourself an engineer without professional qualifications and oversight.)

Those countries (at least France, Switzerland and Canada at least) also have official accredited Software Engineering degrees.

I know because I hired people who graduated from these programs!

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#88

Post by wodenokoto » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 5:01 PM UTC

I’ve always considered it was engineering in the “social engineering “ sense of the word

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#89

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 5:03 PM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #83

cloudking wrote: post #74

Has anyone solved a real business problem with LLMs that they couldn't solve as efficiently before?

Funny. I used to ask the same question about blockchains.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is prompt engineering just snake oil?

#90

Post by ZephyrBlu » Sat, Apr 22, 2023, 5:03 PM UTC

mdp2021 wrote: post #79

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding a working control system doesn't take away the fact it requires skill though. It seems like people think that one day they will be able to give a vague prompt and generate exactly what they were looking for, which I don't believe will ever happen. It feels like there will always be some skill in navigating the model.

> there will always be some skill There is a world of difference between the needs in governance in just having to write "Those decorations where I marked the area, make them a bit more Hans Holbein as opposed to Klimt", compared to knowing patching tricks so that if you asked the engine to draw a 'T' you were not being served a 'B'. This latter example - ask 'B', get 'T' - I have seen from Midjourney only a few hour…

I disagree it will ever be that easy for people to generate specifically what they’re looking for.

I believe there will always be some amount of navigation of the latent space required, and people who don’t understand how to navigate it will struggle.

To use your analogy, even if the horse is tame you still need to know how to ride it.