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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#781

Post by alliao »

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

model Y consistently do 150Wh/km which is just nuts... one thing with petrol chemical too is it's not carrying all the energy with it, the oxygen came from atmosphere while EV is carrying the entire energy required to run with itself..

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#783

Post by Dylan16807 »

giobox wrote: post #723
lelanthran wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, if you can find fuel. Of course you'll find fuel; ICE trucks aren't being banned. You can use their fuel. Might be slightly inconvenient to have to drive to a depot once a month, but people will do it if the economics are right.

This assumes future regulations will allow you to do this. There are already examples of commercial fuels today that sell fuel only to commercial customers at a different rate. See "red diesel" in the UK - its just plain ole diesel taxed differently for commercial use, but illegal for use in privately owned personal vehicles. It's dyed red to allow its use in private vehicles to be discovered from the discoloration o…

But that's the thing, the only difference is tax. It's pretty unlikely you'd be unable to just pay the tax for gas.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#784

Post by MobiusHorizons »

gertlex wrote: post #768
gambiting wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but it's not about starter motors - these batteries power 400kW motors, that's a lot of power.

Honest question, though: does "Turning over an engine" (as an earlier commenter typed) have actual meaning for an EV?

No, it is referring to what the starter motor in an ICE vehicle does. It was most likely a misunderstanding, but it is more similar in that it pulls very high loads like a drone battery does.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#785

Post by Schroedingersat »

magila wrote: post #473
jackmott42 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is why batteries have become so much better now than they were 20 years ago.

Eh, not really. Most "battery breakthrough!" press releases are about some new exotic chemistry while most mass produced battery improvements in the last 20 years have come from incremental improvements to existing chemistries and better packaging.

Hard carbon anodes were one of these "exotic" new elements, but are now just standard.

Silicon anodes will be the same.

Sodium ion still has shills screeching about how it'll never come despite being last year's news.

Lithium Manganese batteries are another one of these exotic chemistries that arrived without fanfare.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#786

Post by Schroedingersat »

walrus01 wrote: post #763
ejiblabahaba wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on Google's specs[0], the GMF5Z battery in the Pixel 7 pro is 18.96 Wh and 65 g, which is around 292 Wh/kg. [0] https://support.google.com/product-documentation/answer/9682...

The design of a battery for a phone is nowhere near the capability of C rate and discharge amperage needed to power multi hundred watt load electric motors. Totally different thing.

Those are some very portable goalposts.

UAVs have high C rates and high durability.

EVs or even aircraft don't need anywhere near 40C.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#787

Post by lelanthran »

giobox wrote: post #723
lelanthran wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, if you can find fuel. Of course you'll find fuel; ICE trucks aren't being banned. You can use their fuel. Might be slightly inconvenient to have to drive to a depot once a month, but people will do it if the economics are right.

This assumes future regulations will allow you to do this. There are already examples of commercial fuels today that sell fuel only to commercial customers at a different rate. See "red diesel" in the UK - its just plain ole diesel taxed differently for commercial use, but illegal for use in privately owned personal vehicles. It's dyed red to allow its use in private vehicles to be discovered from the discoloration o…

> See "red diesel" in the UK - its just plain ole diesel taxed differently for commercial use, but illegal for use in privately owned personal vehicles. It's dyed red to allow its use in private vehicles to be discovered from the discoloration of engine parts etc.

Maybe, but we're talking about the banning of ICE vehicles, not the banning of fuel.

I mean, "you won't find fuel because it will be illegal to possess it" is a substantially different argument from "you won't find fuel because no one will produce it anymore".

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#788

Post by 0xy »

geysersam wrote: post #216
doetoe wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it populist to call this a tax on poor people?

It's less populist and more a talking point. It's the perfect cover. "We can't stop allowing the rich to destroy the climate because we care so much about poor people." In '35 it's doubtful ICE will be cheaper than EV anyway (look at price development over last decade...) Banning ICE will speed up this development. Climate change will disproportionately affect people who are already vulnerable. Tax carbon emissions a…

ICE prices will continue to drop. SSD hard drives (the newer, more efficient and faster technology) prices have plummeted in the last 10 years, however spinning rust prices have also plummeted, making spinning rust the only choice if capacity-per-dollar is your metric.

You also mention climate change, but I don't see how an extra average degree of weather (if that materializes) will be worse than stripping poor people of transportation and condemning them to never having a job (since most lower rung jobs require a car).

Certainly, these poor people will absolutely eviscerate you at the polls if you level them with this massive poor tax.

As for public transportation, the US is incapable of building new rail infrastructure. California's $150,000,000,000 LA-to-SF train is an unmitigated disaster, Chicago's rolling stock is extremely old and falling apart and New York City takes 12 years to build 4 miles of new lines, at a cost that is quadruple what France would spend for identical infrastructure.

You're in a dream world. The same people who claim that a poor people tax helps them also support cash pits known as modern rail infrastructure in the US (it's more like grift and fraud, though).

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#789

Post by Moldoteck »

dalyons wrote: post #507
Moldoteck wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the problem is electric cars aren't cheap, even in SH market and public transport in some parts of europe and us just sucks. For example I can totally see banning selling ice cars in netherlands, sweeden, norway, israel and other regions with good transportation and richer people, but banning them in us, italy, greece, romania and other similar states (either because they're poor or public transport is bad) i…

They will become cheap though. As manufacturers move downmarket and the used Ev market grows. Maybe even cheaper than gas in the end - simpler, more reliable etc

One of the most popular cars in Romania (and a lot of EU)is 10k euro Dacia, it has a nice range and can be repaired pretty cheap. if you say electric cars with a somewhat similar range will get that cheap, even sh, well, I hope we'll get that future) For now we have a 12k euro dacia spring, that is heavily subsidized(18k normal price) and with a real range of 100-150km depending on weather and speed, so we have some way to go

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#790

Post by adrianN »

pl90087 wrote: post #431
tpmx wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The urban greens in the previous Swedish government coalition wants to ban fossil-based petrol from being sold starting 2030 - which economically speaking is kind of the same thing.

How is that the same thing? Every ounce of oil coming out of the groud and getting burned ends up as CO2 in the atmosphere. Banning that has nothing to do with ICEs. You can run an ICE on synthetic fuels. It's not as energy-efficient but only half the efficiency from a renewable source is still better than "full" efficiency from a fossil source. If you _really_ must use an ICE, there will be a way. It won't be cheap,…

"Half the efficiency" is highly optimistic. Afaik making synfuels loses about 70% of the energy and then you burn the stuff in an engine that is at best 40% efficient. Meanwhile EVs have >70% wind turbine to wheel motion efficiency.
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