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The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

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Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#261

Post by kipchak »

gherkinnn wrote: post #236
Dalewyn wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make bad times. Bad times make strong men.

Rubbish. Why can't this idiotic meme die already?

While the above is overly simplistic, the basic concept has historical precedent under the general umbrella Social Cycle Theory which is likely why it persists. The same basic idea is described in Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah as "Asabiyyah", for example. There is also the Greek kyklos, or the more recent Cyclical Theory[1], Strauss-Howe generational theory or Secular cycles theory,[2] which roughly maps on to the meme's cycles.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclical_theory_(United_States...

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cycle_theory#Secular_cy...

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#262

Post by LocalH »

hellojesus wrote: post #226
anigbrowl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's blatant propaganda, but Americans continue to lie to themselves that they live in the freest country in the world.

The real problem is there isn't any better country. Zero countries currently compete with America for greater freedom. Please let me know if you know of any because I'm getting absolutely tired of working four months for free each year, knowing that my tax dollars are paying for goods and services from which I'll never be able to benefit.

Modern governance is the problem. However, if there is no country that's, say 50% free (to put an arbitrary number on it), and even when we presume that America is 49% free and "everyone else" is less, that doesn't mean there is actual freedom.

American freedom seems to largely be centered around the ability to make money, the way things are going nowadays. We were more free in the 70s and 80s. Nowadays people in some areas get child services called because they dared to allow their child to venture somewhere by themselves. America is often the worst offender in some of these areas. True patriotism is understanding that we're not the "best" country in the world, and that we could stand a lot of weeding out chaff. Taxes go to a lot more waste than would ever come out of individual benefits, when you take the end result benefit to society. "Freedom" to allow poverty to exist is "freedom for some, but not for all".

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#263

Post by dllthomas »

hellojesus wrote: post #240
dllthomas wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California has had a jungle primary for a bit now, and there has been at least one general election that pitted Feinstein against a Democrat in the general election. As I mentioned elsewhere, the most common argument I got from Democrats around me for voting for her was seniority, for committee appointments and such.

Seems odd to knowingly choose a candidate that will work to make the lives of Americans worse solely to keep seniority. In fact, doing so seems like you would be empowering a terrible person beyond a normal terrible person, thus ensuring the lives of Americans are that much worse. Bonkers.

I mean, I don't think they believe she is "work[ing] to make the lives of Americans worse", even if they think the other candidate might be better. They agree with a lot of her positions. Heck, I agree with a lot of her positions, I just disagree with too many important ones.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#264

Post by krainboltgreene »

Dalewyn wrote: post #214
lagniappe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As each generation is born not caring about privacy and posting everything for likes, I fear more are being coached to not have privacy as a priority.

Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make bad times. Bad times make strong men.

I can't imagine actually posting this publicly for people to mock, and not even under a throw away. Incredible.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#265

Post by HopenHeyHi »

yieldcrv wrote: post #225
Dalewyn wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing to demand not calling ordinary people names, but Feinstein isn't an ordinary person. If one can't call a person in power names, that implies many things you probably didn't want to imply.

That he’s not a free speech absolutist? big deal, nobody is no platform is, thats the expected default behavior everywhere you go and there is zero reason why HN would be different. I’m not even going to go into how this is a private platform with clearly stated rules for you because it doesn't even matter, just take the L

This attitude isn't a good look for the owners of this private platform and I don't think they'd agree with your perspective nor do most of the users. Food for thought.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#266

Post by nullc »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #7

A reminder that "you have nothing to hide" argument is a fallacy because people abuse their power: Some first hits as reminders of places where their powers are abused [1]: "NSA staff used spy tools on spouses, ex-lovers: watchdog" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-surveillance-watchdog... [2]: https://reason.com/2022/07/26/police-can-access-your-ring-ca... [3]: https://reason.com/2021/04/26/warrantless-border-s…

even if they didn't currently abuse their power or abused it only an "acceptable" degree, we're never more than one election away or even just one hiring decision away from someone who would do much worse.

The right protection is for the power to not exist.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#267

Post by dmvdoug »

noelsusman wrote: post #32

I find myself consistently disappointed when reading blog posts like this. I generally agree with the principles that the EFF advocates for, but it's hard to see this post as anything other than rage-bait. I can't trust it to be an accurate source of information on what this bill actually does. For example, I've repeatedly seen claims that this bill would effectively outlaw end-to-end encryption, but the bill explici…

So, I think the bigger issue is that those things may not serve as an independent basis for liability. But (B) then says that those things may be considered as evidence if they’re otherwise admissible (under the Federal Rules). In other words, encryption by itself does not expose them to liability, but those who might get sued could have encryption used against them as evidence that they “knowingly” possessed, transmitted, etc. CSAM. If robust encryption makes it more difficult to identify or stop CSAM trafficking, and a service refuses to compromise its encryption, that could be used as evidence against them.

That’s the fear, anyway.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#268

Post by AnthonyMouse »

iknowstuff wrote: post #191
genocidicbunny wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who uses that argument, ask them to hand you their phone, unlocked, and a list of passwords for all of their accounts. If you have nothing to hide, why would you have a problem with me poking around in the most intimate aspects of your life?

This doesn't really convince them. To them, a friend might be someone they want to hide things from, but they won’t care about some unknown government entity having access.

This comes from not knowing what organizations are likely to do with it.

Would they be okay with the data being used to overcharge them whenever they're in a hurry because the organization knows when they don't have time to comparison shop?

How about maximizing their tax burden by using the data to calculate the highest tax rates each area would tolerate before moving or changing their vote?

Suppose the government falls under the control of the party they don't like. Should they have access to the data that allows them to most effectively target their propaganda?

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#269

Post by borski »

noelsusman wrote: post #249
borski wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Client side scanning came out of the discussion around this bill the last time it was proposed. That it isn’t in this bill doesn’t mean it isn’t in politicians’ heads, and if this gets passed there is then significant precedent for extending it, as a small extension doesn’t seem as big as a full-scale government invasion of citizens’ privacy (i.e. this bill).

I don't believe the transition from "set up a commission to recommend best practices" to "mandate regular scans of everyone's phones and report the results to law enforcement" would be viewed as a small extension.

I wish I were as optimistic as you, but experience has shown me I can’t be, on this topic.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#270

Post by kahrl »

treis wrote: post #132
noelsusman wrote: post #32

I find myself consistently disappointed when reading blog posts like this. I generally agree with the principles that the EFF advocates for, but it's hard to see this post as anything other than rage-bait. I can't trust it to be an accurate source of information on what this bill actually does. For example, I've repeatedly seen claims that this bill would effectively outlaw end-to-end encryption, but the bill explici…

[flagged]

You're literally denouncing the 4th amendment. You're saying that all of us must submit to warrantless and broad searches because the statistics says that at least some crime must be occurring. Absurd.

Or is it that there is an intermediary involved? Are you saying that banks that offer safety deposit boxes are responsible for their contents? Also absurd.

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