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The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

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Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#91

Post by pc86 »

borski wrote: post #61
dehrmann wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FEINSTEIN Many years ago, I remember she supported a similar bill around limiting encryption. Around six months later, it was reported some government agency was spying on senators' emails, and she wasn't happy. I don't think she made the connection between the two, or that she supports widespread data collection when it's not her data.

I met her at an SVLG dinner and had a discussion about encryption; it became instantly clear she doesn’t know what a computer is past that it is a TV that takes input, and that encryption is just “evil people wanting to do evil things.” There was no reasoning with her either, frankly because she is well-aged, and thus thinks herself “wise” with very little left to learn. It was honestly infuriating. [edit] In case an…

Even among the dinosaurs in the US Senate, Feinstein stands alone in her striking ability to be willfully ignorant about anything developed after the steam locomotive.

The country would be an objectively better place if both the House and Senate had a mandatory retirement age.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#92

Post by pksebben »

notRobot wrote: post #3

I'm so tired. I wish we didn't have to keep going through constant attacks on our privacy. I know they're hoping that people will give up after a point out of weariness, and I'm afraid when it comes to many people they're right.

I feel like we just have to hold out for another couple of decades - until there aren't any boomers left in government.

This whole clusterfuck is a result of old people not knowing their ass from a pihole.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#93

Post by hammyhavoc »

pksebben wrote: post #87
hammyhavoc wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, clothes are mostly down to weather and laws on public decency, and nudists are the counterpoint that prove some demographics would prefer to be naked if the law allowed it, same with tribes like Koma. Locks are more for security than privacy, and it's important not to conflate the two. People can have nothing to hide, but also not want to be robbed. And as for email, that's again a matter of security because th…

In an information environment, security and privacy are the same thing. The terms may have different connotations culturally, but good security-in-depth is the same set of practices that enable digital privacy, because the objective is the same: prevent leakage of facts.

You can have E2EE to the service provider, but they can be free to rummage through your data if they choose to or are coerced to by a legal demand from an authority. But it eliminates the average schmoe from going through that data.

Is that adequate security? Is that adequate privacy? This is what bills like EARN IT and its ilk are positing with backdoors et al. It depends on your threat model.

If a warrant opens a door or account one way or another, it can be argued that privacy-wise, locks and passwords are poor solutions. Are you protecting business data or trying to survive in an oppressive regime?

Different solutions for different problems, how appropriate they are varies with demographics too.

This is an interesting talking point about privacy and security: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35617773

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#94

Post by JPKab »

borski wrote: post #61
dehrmann wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FEINSTEIN Many years ago, I remember she supported a similar bill around limiting encryption. Around six months later, it was reported some government agency was spying on senators' emails, and she wasn't happy. I don't think she made the connection between the two, or that she supports widespread data collection when it's not her data.

I met her at an SVLG dinner and had a discussion about encryption; it became instantly clear she doesn’t know what a computer is past that it is a TV that takes input, and that encryption is just “evil people wanting to do evil things.” There was no reasoning with her either, frankly because she is well-aged, and thus thinks herself “wise” with very little left to learn. It was honestly infuriating. [edit] In case an…

I met her in 2003, along with her aides at a party I was invited to (in a fluke) in Palm Springs.

She was a moron then, and now she's a senile moron. Her aides, who ended up hanging out with me all weekend, were a perfect illustration of the donor class kids who weren't that smart but got into ivy League schools by legacy admissions. Zero intellectual curiosity, super aware of social status, everything they said seemed preplanned and inauthentic.... Just gross.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#95

Post by x86x87 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #60
maerF0x0 wrote: post #7

A reminder that "you have nothing to hide" argument is a fallacy because people abuse their power: Some first hits as reminders of places where their powers are abused [1]: "NSA staff used spy tools on spouses, ex-lovers: watchdog" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-surveillance-watchdog... [2]: https://reason.com/2022/07/26/police-can-access-your-ring-ca... [3]: https://reason.com/2021/04/26/warrantless-border-s…

People abuse their power, but that wouldn't matter if you really had nothing to hide. But everybody has something to hide. Your social security number? Your bank account number? Your debit card PIN? Yeah, pretty sure you have something to hide.

No. Sorry. This is invalid. It would be pretty bad if we declare some shit illegal and retroactively apply the "law". You will be charged for shit that everyone did and is perfectly fine. For example: How would you like to go to jail for not being a Christian? This will be weaponized.

This is what fascism looks like.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#96

Post by hammyhavoc »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #88
hammyhavoc wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, clothes are mostly down to weather and laws on public decency, and nudists are the counterpoint that prove some demographics would prefer to be naked if the law allowed it, same with tribes like Koma. Locks are more for security than privacy, and it's important not to conflate the two. People can have nothing to hide, but also not want to be robbed. And as for email, that's again a matter of security because th…

> as for email [passwords], that's again a matter of security I guess if we're nitpicking I'll point out that this is still privacy (how one keeps their password) for the sake of security. Information is kept private and passwords are information.

Perhaps drawing a distinction between outbound and inbound email protocols would be good too. I understand the argument being made, but the sensible assumption is that your email, even with a password, isn't a sensible choice for sensitive communications.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#97

Post by RajT88 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #73
RajT88 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern American "patriotism" begins with nationalism, and gets darker and weirder from there. As an exercise, imagine someone who self-identifies as a patriot. Ask them what makes them a patriot. (If you're not American, you might not get what I am getting at, but probably Canadians get it)

The Party(TM) must love types like you. There's a huge subset (dare I say majority) of those "patriots" you deride who don't like this stuff, don't think their goings on are any of the government's business. But of course you ignore that because they don't want what you want on meaningless social issues.

Real patriots, in my experience:

1. Don't talk long and loud about being patriots (i.e. don't self-identify) 2. Tend to work for the government. Career govvies or military. They show their patriotism through action.

> There's a huge subset (dare I say majority) of those "patriots" you deride who don't like this stuff, don't think their goings on are any of the government's business.

I know the type well, as that describes one side of my family. Despite your protestations, we're saying the same thing.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#98

Post by borski »

pc86 wrote: post #91
borski wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I met her at an SVLG dinner and had a discussion about encryption; it became instantly clear she doesn’t know what a computer is past that it is a TV that takes input, and that encryption is just “evil people wanting to do evil things.” There was no reasoning with her either, frankly because she is well-aged, and thus thinks herself “wise” with very little left to learn. It was honestly infuriating. [edit] In case an…

Even among the dinosaurs in the US Senate, Feinstein stands alone in her striking ability to be willfully ignorant about anything developed after the steam locomotive. The country would be an objectively better place if both the House and Senate had a mandatory retirement age.

My instinct is to say “no, that’s ageist” because there are plenty of older people who are legitimately brilliant.

But honestly, she’s a fantastic example of why we should have term limits, at the very least.

Re: The EARN IT bill is back, seeking to scan our messages and photos

#99

Post by at-fates-hands »

notRobot wrote: post #3

I'm so tired. I wish we didn't have to keep going through constant attacks on our privacy. I know they're hoping that people will give up after a point out of weariness, and I'm afraid when it comes to many people they're right.

Sometime in the early aughts (sometime right after 9/11), I remember an interview with a group of three NSA whistle blowers who were coming forward trying to raise the alarm the US govt was using the tools they had developed to stop terror attacks on the US and had turned those tools back on the US population and were gathering unimaginable amounts of data for that purpose on private citizens.

Shortly after they came forward, I read an article stating gathering so much data on so many people essentially allowed any real terrorist (domestic or foreign) to essentially hide in plain view because of the amount of data being collected could not be sifted through fast enough to flag any person or group before they were able to carry out an attack.

Yes, I'm very much on your side in terms of the constant attacks on our privacy and rights. While at the same time, I acknowledge that there is some inherit defense to them gathering too much data which in some sense allows us to maintain some level of privacy in the meantime.

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