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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#551

Post by fwungy »

naasking wrote: post #447
svnt wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a sign of the success of the oil industry that this analysis always takes the cost of electricity generation back to the source, but assumes that fuel stations pump from a perfect source of naturally refined/distilled hydrocarbons. It is surprisingly difficult to get numbers on how much oil is used to extract, refine and transport oil. The best I found was this: https://www.speakev.com/threads/energy-required-t…

> It is surprisingly difficult to get numbers on how much oil is used to extract, refine and transport oil. Not to mention the socialized costs of all the wars, military spending and human lives spent to secure stable sources of fossil fuels. If you actually break down the numbers and applied some basic ethics, I doubt fossil fuels have been cost competitive for decades.

It's funny how the USA feels like it has to get militarily involved to guarantee something that the producers are willing and happy to sell. Even moreso when you understand that the USA has plenty of oil itself available.

It's almost as if they want an excuse for running a massive military.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#552

Post by ilyt »

geysersam wrote: post #202
theK wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups. Just look at what happened to the EU’s ice ban for personal vehicles. Spoiler: while new gasoline burning cars are technically banned after 2035 it will be completely legal to sell new gasoline burning cars by labelling them e-fuel only…

Why would anyone want to use e-fuel in 2035 instead of electricity? (Except for "luxury" brands that just want to be special to distinguish themselves from the rabble.)

braBRAAAAAAP, that's why

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#553

Post by bartvk »

geysersam wrote: post #202
theK wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups. Just look at what happened to the EU’s ice ban for personal vehicles. Spoiler: while new gasoline burning cars are technically banned after 2035 it will be completely legal to sell new gasoline burning cars by labelling them e-fuel only…

Why would anyone want to use e-fuel in 2035 instead of electricity? (Except for "luxury" brands that just want to be special to distinguish themselves from the rabble.)

Long distance trucks?

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#554

Post by frosted-flakes »

ilyt wrote: post #548
walrus01 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What battery pack that I can buy right now is 300Wh/kg? Sincerely curious because that's 50Wh/kg above what people are using in some very expensive UAVs.

UAVs also have higher current requirement, and that means more weight "wasted" for chonkier electrodes Car batteries aren't pulling 50C worth of current

Don't car batteries also have very high current requirements? Turning over an engine takes an enormous amount of power.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#555

Post by thelastgallon »

mdp2021 wrote: post #220
matsemann wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so important for you to be able to pollute a bit more when commuting?

First of all, the poster was writing about the legal elimination of an option, which is does not fit such reduction. Some people value the qualities that the current (pun happened) alternatives do not offer: they are inadequate for some use cases. This includes long travel and refuelling in minutes. Furthermore, since societies are now suffering an epidemic of lunacy, electric cars can be extreme noise pollutants, be…

> electric cars can be extreme noise pollutants

walk, bike and horse are better solutions for noise, not ICE cars. Ban all cars?

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#556

Post by rootusrootus »

nayuki wrote: post #483
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah. My point was more that there are losses assocated with these conversions and you can't move all of it to the upstream power plant. ICE vehicles burn fuel and create rotational mechanical energy which other than gear reductions doesn't require conversion. Electric does chemical -> electrical and then electrical -> mechanical with losses at each step here right?

Note how almost every diesel locomotive has electrical generators and motors as an intermediate step because they decided that it's cheaper, more efficient, and/or lighter than having a huge gearbox. Electrification has some real advantages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_locomotive , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel%E2%80%93electric_powert...

Efficiency is important, but I'd bet the diesel electric design was mostly about simplification of the drivetrain and performance. An electric motor develops maximum torque at zero RPM and is very easy to modulate the amount of torque applied. A reciprocating engine has a minimum speed, so getting an extremely heavy train moving from a dead stop is tricky. Remember how old steam locomotives tend to spin the wheels regularly as they get up to speed.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#557

Post by vel0city »

vivegi wrote: post #412
msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

I have a fundamental question though. Will EVs (Li battery based) achieve the holy grail of IC engine replacement? Earth's Lithium deposits.................. 88,000,000,000 Kilograms [2], [3] @25% Viable for mining.................... 22,000,000,000 Kilograms [2], [3] Tesla S battery weight.................... 540 Kilograms per car [4] Lithium weight per Tesla S battery........ 63 Kilograms per battery [4] Max Tesla…

> Owing to continuing exploration, identified lithium resources have increased substantially...

Emphasis added from your [3].

Ever think maybe your 88,000,000,000 Kilograms number isn't actually all the lithium on the planet, and maybe there's more undiscovered under the ground? Or do you think all the lithium on the planet was discovered in 2023, and now there won't be any more reserves found?

Strange how this maximum amount of lithium reserves keeps magically growing year over year over year over year. I wonder how it magically appears.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#558

Post by seandoe »

raindear wrote: post #536

A competition to self driving cars? If urban flight is possible in 10 years, will people need self driving cars?

oh god, could you imagine some of the car drivers you see flying a _plane_ -- above your house? Self-flying would be the only way to go.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#560

Post by 2rsf »

xxs wrote: post #343
2rsf wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DC is better then AC and both depends on how much the battery is already charged, temperature of the battery, the infrastructure (charging cables for example). The range is somewhere from low 80's for low amperage AC charging on cold weather using a low quality granny charger cable to high 90's for a warm battery on a dedicated high power DC charger. This of course doesn't include losses in transmission from the powe…

Charging goes like this: - AC converted to DC (with power factor correction, usually means AC stepped up 1st) - DC converted back to AC (but higher voltage) and MUCH higher frequency - AC transformed to lower AC voltage (still higher frequence) - AC rectified to DC (filtered and stabilized), DC voltage lower If there is DC, the very 1st part can be omitted.

Wait! what? why? as part of the DC to DC conversion? how does it affect efficiency?
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