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Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

thedrive.com

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Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#121

Post by bluGill »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #111
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #108

I live in a rural mountainous area. FWD cars have a huge advantage over anything RWD: traction going up hill. Nothings funnier than watching delivery trucks going up a giant hill backwards because it's the only way they can maintain traction.

Don't you have that backwards? Maybe at the Apex of a hill, FWD wins; but climbing shifts your weight to the rear. The only time my FWD Civic struggles is when accelerating uphill in snow.

The engine weight is still over the front wheels, so FWD gets more traction.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#122

Post by eimrine »

gnicholas wrote: post #92
skeeter2020 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My commuter bike only has a front brake. You can shift body position to make it pretty much impossible to go OTB. Meanwhile my DJ bike only has a rear brake, which at best "strongly suggests" you slow down.

Why would a commuter bike (or any bike) have only a front brake?

Having only front brake is almost common for fixed gear bikes because they can break rear by retention and fixie counts as a commuter bike.

Also it might be a decent config for learning some BMX tricks because if you want to be able to do a barspin you can not have both brakes.

And if you have a bicycle with a coaster hub and a front brake and your chain is off than you are effectively having only front brakes.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#124

Post by bluGill »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #51
kenhwang wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As long as you're not losing traction on your rear wheels" is the key part. The more you brake, the more weight shifts forward, which results in less traction available to use to recapture. People vastly overestimate how much traction is available at the rear during braking, and running out of traction at the rear typically results in the car spinning (especially in an EV with low rotational inertia with most of the…

This is obvious to anyone who's changed the brakes on their car. Front brakes are massive compared to the rear.

Not on more modern cars. In an emergency stop situation the front brakes still do the work, but in normal more gradual stop situations traction control biases to the back wheels as much as possible so the front wheels can steer.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#125

Post by moremetadata »

jerrysievert wrote: post #79
mrinterweb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only driven older RWD vehicles so I experienced RWD + traction control. I just remember a couple freaky situations driving in older RWD on icy roads. FWD vehicles definitely had more control, but again that was in older vehicles.

FWD don't have more control under slippery conditions if your front tires break free. RWD + traction control is pretty amazing. of course, it doesn't help too much in ice if you're running on summer sports tires, but that's an entirely different problem.

[dead]

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#126

Post by avereveard »

kube-system wrote: post #43
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The understeer characteristics of a FWD car are very easy and intuitive to recover This might be true when discussing snap over-steer and throttle induced under-steer on a track but is a complete lie for snow driving where most drivers will just keep steering harder in response to under-steer which is not productive and you don't have enough traction for lifting and braking to induce much extra weight on the front.

> most drivers will just keep steering harder in response to under-steer That's my point. Make the wrong correction in RWD car and you end up oversteering beyond 90 degrees in an unrecoverable spin. The failure modes of FWD understeer in the snow are all recoverable.

Also losing control and hitting a tree with your front crumple zone is much better than hitting the same tree side on with the driver door

That is the understated safety factor of understeer, but people prefer to think in terms of never doing mistakes instead that in terms of overall safety

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#127

Post by Auracle »

segmondy wrote: post #2

RWD are harder to drive in snow and slippery conditions.

I've driven a Camaro year 'round in Minnesota for the last 10 years. The only place I've gotten stuck is our own (sloped) driveway, a few times. Snow tires are amazing, and it's ridiculous how few people have them here. It's always a hoot borrowing someone's pickup in the winter that they feel is oh-so-good in the snow and realizing how carefully I need to drive it because of their all-season tires. I literally plowed a road with the front of my car this year through nearly 2 feet of snow.

To be fair, they probably wouldn't get stuck in my driveway but I can stop a hell of a lot quicker and turn if necessary. I also find controlling a near spinout to be more intuitive on a RWD vehicle than a FWD one, but that might be just because my first car was RWD as well.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#128

Post by Auracle »

SECProto wrote: post #70
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course something on harder tires will not brake and turn as well as something on softer tires. The reduced ability to stop and turn has lead to in my snow driving experience, far, far fewer "that could have easily gone worse" situations than a lack of ability to gracefully put power to the ground. I don't get why everyone obsesses over stopping and turning and shills snow tires. There's a reason that everyone and…

> I don't get why everyone obsesses over stopping and turning and shills snow tires. Most accidents are caused by failure to stop and failure to turn, not failure to accelerate. > There's a reason that everyone and their brother buys an AWD vehicle and far fewer people buy snow tires. You clearly live in a very different place than me - very few passenger vehicles are available with AWD (subarus, trucks, some SUVs).…

I live in Minnesota and very few people buy snow tires, and most balk at it. They don't realize the difference it makes.

I regularly drive in conditions in my damned Camaro where the only other vehicles on the road are trucks, with some of them not being on the road anymore.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#129

Post by tadfisher »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #84
dumbfounder wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very high performance != Fun. They are different. They say Miatas are fun to drive, and they are cheap, and therefore popular to race. But they are definitely not fast cars. I have never driven one, but I have always favored RWD cars, and never driven a FWD car that is anywhere near as fun. But that said, I haven't driven everything.

> != Fun You know what's not fun? Reading about a RWD car that slid into a roadside tree, killing the mother and child who had no training in drifting, like 99% of drivers. RWD cars, even with modern ESP etc, should simply not be sold to untrained drivers.

That's a little overblown, IMO. A FWD car is perfectly capable of understeering into the same tree.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#130

Post by Brajeshwar »

0_____0 wrote: post #75
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter the powertrain layout if you lose traction on the front, ie understeer, you need to create a weight shift forward to restore traction. I've done a couple rally instructional clinics, and one of the introductory drills they spent a fair bit of time on was just a giant circle of cones set up on dirt. You go around it faster and faster until the car breaks free into a slide, then you learn how to control and m…

In Norway, this is basic driver education. The drivers' license there requires "slippery road" training, which involves a more basic version of what you're describing.

Wow! This is nice and should be must. In India, we get our driver's license along with the local street food snacks.

/s

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