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Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

thedrive.com

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Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#71

Post by mrinterweb »

jerrysievert wrote: post #63
mrinterweb wrote: post #59

Rear-wheel-drive vehicles have traction problems on slick roads. Losing traction on your front wheels is terrifying. I've had this happen before as I have had the opposite fishtailing with front-wheel-drive. Losing rear-wheel traction is something that can be compensated, but I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction.

yes, RWD can have traction issues, but modern (2006+) traction control handles this nicely. my RWD can be extremely squirrelly if I turn off traction control (I call it the "fun button"), but I've always felt I've had more control than what a FWD can offer me.

I've only driven older RWD vehicles so I experienced RWD + traction control. I just remember a couple freaky situations driving in older RWD on icy roads. FWD vehicles definitely had more control, but again that was in older vehicles.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#73

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

mrinterweb wrote: post #59

Rear-wheel-drive vehicles have traction problems on slick roads. Losing traction on your front wheels is terrifying. I've had this happen before as I have had the opposite fishtailing with front-wheel-drive. Losing rear-wheel traction is something that can be compensated, but I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction.

No matter the powertrain layout if you lose traction on the front, ie understeer, you need to create a weight shift forward to restore traction.

I've done a couple rally instructional clinics, and one of the introductory drills they spent a fair bit of time on was just a giant circle of cones set up on dirt. You go around it faster and faster until the car breaks free into a slide, then you learn how to control and maintain that slide however you want. All 4 wheels have lost traction but you can still widen or tighten the radius by using weight shifts. Basically, you start steering using the pedals more than the wheel.

So you're not totally screwed if you lose front wheel traction, but this is stuff we don't teach in basic drivers ed classes.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#74

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #35

Is there a reason why EV's can't have a tiny second motor for redundancy and maybe a bit of traction? Dual motor EV's seem to be focused on performance and have two powerful motors.

Electric motors are so reliable it's probably simply not worth it.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#75

Post by 0_____0 »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #73
mrinterweb wrote: post #59

Rear-wheel-drive vehicles have traction problems on slick roads. Losing traction on your front wheels is terrifying. I've had this happen before as I have had the opposite fishtailing with front-wheel-drive. Losing rear-wheel traction is something that can be compensated, but I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction.

No matter the powertrain layout if you lose traction on the front, ie understeer, you need to create a weight shift forward to restore traction. I've done a couple rally instructional clinics, and one of the introductory drills they spent a fair bit of time on was just a giant circle of cones set up on dirt. You go around it faster and faster until the car breaks free into a slide, then you learn how to control and m…

In Norway, this is basic driver education. The drivers' license there requires "slippery road" training, which involves a more basic version of what you're describing.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#76

Post by [deleted] »

m463 wrote: post #64
mrinterweb wrote: post #59

Rear-wheel-drive vehicles have traction problems on slick roads. Losing traction on your front wheels is terrifying. I've had this happen before as I have had the opposite fishtailing with front-wheel-drive. Losing rear-wheel traction is something that can be compensated, but I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction.

I would think that front wheel drive would impair steering in tricky situations, while rear wheel drive would separate steering from drive and be better (with computerized help)

[deleted]

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#77

Post by hn_user82179 »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #73
mrinterweb wrote: post #59

Rear-wheel-drive vehicles have traction problems on slick roads. Losing traction on your front wheels is terrifying. I've had this happen before as I have had the opposite fishtailing with front-wheel-drive. Losing rear-wheel traction is something that can be compensated, but I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction.

No matter the powertrain layout if you lose traction on the front, ie understeer, you need to create a weight shift forward to restore traction. I've done a couple rally instructional clinics, and one of the introductory drills they spent a fair bit of time on was just a giant circle of cones set up on dirt. You go around it faster and faster until the car breaks free into a slide, then you learn how to control and m…

That sounds really useful! I did something at a lower level, it was basically “defensive driving for teens” (I was 28 and twice the age of everyone else there, lol). It was run by a former racing car instructor in Phoenix and they had a FWD skid car that we practiced on. I was a pretty confident driver before the class but still found it very difficult to control coming out of the skid. I’ve been wanting to take a refresher to see if I’d handle it any better but haven’t found any classes near me, I should check for rally clinics

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#78

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

PaulHoule wrote: post #8
singleshot_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RWD cars allow you develop a much higher degree of skill at driving because of the requirement to separately manage traction on the drive and steering axles.

For one thing, you can enter and maintain a drift in an FR car. In a FF car you can easily enter a drift but the car will either straighten out or go into a spin. I’d tell you about my tactics for going around corners fast in a FF car but I’d get downvoted…

You can maintain a drift in an FF car. The overall concept of weight shift is the same. You can even selectively lock up the rears without using the hand brake by using throttle to overpower the brakes on the front but not the rear.

Source: was taught this stuff by someone that won SCCA autocross nationals, as well as a few podiums in rally. Go to any rally event and you'll see plenty of FF cars doing every drift you can imagine through corners.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#79

Post by jerrysievert »

mrinterweb wrote: post #71
jerrysievert wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, RWD can have traction issues, but modern (2006+) traction control handles this nicely. my RWD can be extremely squirrelly if I turn off traction control (I call it the "fun button"), but I've always felt I've had more control than what a FWD can offer me.

I've only driven older RWD vehicles so I experienced RWD + traction control. I just remember a couple freaky situations driving in older RWD on icy roads. FWD vehicles definitely had more control, but again that was in older vehicles.

FWD don't have more control under slippery conditions if your front tires break free.

RWD + traction control is pretty amazing. of course, it doesn't help too much in ice if you're running on summer sports tires, but that's an entirely different problem.

Re: Rear-wheel-drive cars are back and we have EVs to thank

#80

Post by adrianmonk »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #55
frosted-flakes wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is obvious to anyone who's changed the brakes on their car. Front brakes are massive compared to the rear.

Or used any vehicle with independent front/rear braking like a motorcycle or bike. The rear is for fine tuning while the front is for actually stopping.

Also anyone who has ridden a bicycle.
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