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TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

bloomberg.com

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Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#171

Post by Dah00n »

Dig1t wrote: post #168
phendrenad2 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning an app because it's controlled by a person or persons with ideas you don't like.

The CCP is more than "a person". The CCP is an adversarial government with a strong incentive to weaken the US. Talking about the CCP as if it were just some people with different ideas is not a good faith argument.

By that logic everything Made In The USA should be banned everywhere outside the US. Snowden proved that it is by far the worst offender and leaks have shown that Instagram is just as bad as TikTok, and they do it knowingly. All the anti-Tiktok reeks of racism.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#172

Post by now__what »

throwaway71271 wrote: post #16

isnt any modern engagement optimized engine doing the same? like snapchat's discover feed garbage what do people expect? if it learns what makes you stay on the platform it gives you more of the stuff that makes you stay you are what you eat.

We're talking about children here. Their decision-making skills and understanding of consequences is by nature impaired (compared to the typical adult).

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#173

Post by micromacrofoot »

bagels wrote: post #71
micromacrofoot wrote: post #30

algorithmic recommendation systems are dangerous, how many times do we have to be shown this — it's like if you replaced all the mirrors in the house with carnival mirrors that make you look fat, of course this is going to cause some people to feel worse about themselves than regular mirrors!

Blaming "algorithms" is really imprecise. Any media site has to use some algorithm to pick what content to present, even if it's a chronological sort algorithm.

I blamed content recommendation algorithms specifically. They blindly amplify a lot of problems, and I'm not sure they can be fixed broadly enough to avoid this. We've seen this time and time again at this point. There are so many examples, notably youtube has a problem with accidentally radicalizing terrorists.

It seems we've discovered that there's a good amount of value in looking for content rather than mindlessly consuming what's being fed to us.

It's the old (tongue-in-cheek) problem of telling your family you like cows... only to later dread the fact that every gift they ever give you from then on will be cow related.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#174

Post by bagels »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #173
bagels wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming "algorithms" is really imprecise. Any media site has to use some algorithm to pick what content to present, even if it's a chronological sort algorithm.

I blamed content recommendation algorithms specifically. They blindly amplify a lot of problems, and I'm not sure they can be fixed broadly enough to avoid this. We've seen this time and time again at this point. There are so many examples, notably youtube has a problem with accidentally radicalizing terrorists . It seems we've discovered that there's a good amount of value in looking for content rather than mindless…

Right, but showing all posts in chronological order is a "content recommendation" algorithm. Is that amplifying problems too?

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#175

Post by CuriousSkeptic »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #120
CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Almost every political party in western democracies are “liberal” in the classical sense. There is an interesting case made[1] that while this used to be true, it is actually not the case any more and that things are starting to become rather anti-liberal on both sides of the political spectrum. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/102146148-what-s-our-pro...

I’m not sure I buy that argument. When I was a kid I remember we had the PMRC, panic over violence in video games, and endless debates over a different flavour of “political correctness”. They purveyors of moral panic has a different cast today (on both sides of the political spectrum), but I don’t really buy into this “everything is worse than it used to be” idea. I guess government encroachment on civil liberties t…

The argument put forward in the book is that the extreme polarisation is in fact quite new, and that it has lead to a situation where extreme, anti-liberal ideologies, has been given more room to act within their respective communities and been given power to punish non-believers into submission and suppress free speech. Creating a form of vicious spiral.

A quote from the page I was just reading:

> “When Speech First brought a lawsuit against Michigan, alleging that their bias response teams were unconstitutional and “flagrantly violate the First Amendment,” the court agreed, ruling against the school. As of 2022, 456 U.S. colleges⬥ have bias response teams (almost double the 2017 total of 232),49 and very few have been subject to investigations like the one at Michigan.”

Excerpt From What's Our Problem? Tim Urban https://books.apple.com/se/book/whats-our-problem/id64456422... This material may be protected by copyright.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#176

Post by nullsense »

chimpanzee wrote: post #165
ilyt wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah random acts of censorship for "good of the people", what can go bad /s by all means put a content warning or maybe a suicide prevention hotline or other help but I'm tired of clowns trying to solve any problem with "bad content" with censorship. Like that didn't misfire enough times in history...

I’m tired of clowns conflating algorithm adjustments with “random acts of censorship”. If you have a problem with it, you should instead be demanding an open index of all content on these platforms so that you can be assured that all information submitted is available and free from real censorship.

I'm more and more beginning 5o think tech companies need to face very aggressive regulations around transparency like this.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#177

Post by throwaway2214 »

now__what wrote: post #172
throwaway71271 wrote: post #16

isnt any modern engagement optimized engine doing the same? like snapchat's discover feed garbage what do people expect? if it learns what makes you stay on the platform it gives you more of the stuff that makes you stay you are what you eat.

We're talking about children here. Their decision-making skills and understanding of consequences is by nature impaired (compared to the typical adult).

if their parents give them heroin, will we turn blind eye?

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#178

Post by tracker1 »

yellow_lead wrote: post #106

Although TikTok should do better to demote these kinds of videos, I can't buy the conspiracy theory that this is done intentionally. Anyone who knows a bit about recommendation systems can understand that watching depressing videos will get you more in your feed. Collaborative filtering with i.e watch time as a signal will lead someone who watches them to more.

Considering the Chinese version doesn't even allow the types of content that is most promoted on the US system, and is generally positive messaging.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#179

Post by loeg »

dehrmann wrote: post #107
sandman8 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In contemporary American politics, "liberal" and "authoritarian" are often overlapping categories. The two-party system makes for all sorts of weird alliances of distinct groups getting lumped together- there's really no reason that one's opinions on gun rights should be related to one's opinions on energy policy, or why one's opinion on abortion should be related to one's opinion on foreign affairs policy, but with…

I'm amazed at how people will happily (enough) coalesce into two parties and align their views accordingly. Maybe it's just an exercise in dimensionality reduction.

It's hard to get anything done without a majority coalition. The two party system endures due to quirks of our election design that the two parties themselves are both very happy to keep in place (any change to elections that would make 3rd parties viable would cause the two current parties to lose some power).

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#180

Post by mock-possum »

lnsru wrote: post #21

The question is how to keep kids off social media. I am very thankful neighbor mom, who bought her son a smart watch and not a cheap android phone. Good example for other kids. It’s clear, that departments with lots of clever people are doing to lock young kids in the phones. And only parents can protect them.

I don’t think the solution is to keep kids off social media, I think the solution is teaching kids how to use social media safely. Adults could stand to learn a lot about that too.
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