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TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

bloomberg.com

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Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#161

Post by whitemary »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #73
DubiousPusher wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the broken ass left/right political spectrum that's so popular in the U.S. Liberal != Leftist And neither a leftist nor a liberal has to answer for Communist China. Nor do you gain any special "objectivity" about China by being either one.

The left/right view of the political spectrum doesn’t accurately characterise politics anywhere. Almost every political party in western democracies are “liberal” in the classical sense. The only generalisation I think reliably separates left/right is the level of government intervention, in both economic and social issues, that they ideologically support. But I don’t think that translates very well into the level of…

> Almost every political party in western democracies are “liberal” in the classical sense.

Wrong. They are neoliberal, not classically liberal.

Classical liberalism (belief in naturalistic free market economics) failed in the 20th century and neoliberalism took its place, characterized by top-down micromanagement of economic ecosystem.

In other words, classical liberalism insists markets will thrive only when left to their own devices. Neoliberalism insists markets will thrive only when managed by competent administrators (see Federal Reserve).

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#162

Post by majormajor »

ilyt wrote: post #149
majormajor wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can't keep kids from drinking alcohol, they can get it from their friends parents." This is also a true statement, but happens far less than it does with social media (or other violent or otherwise undesired media). That's not currently what people want, but I think it could change it the future. But at the same time, there is a particular American quality of stubborness/pride that will probably push back "we ha…

>"You can't keep kids from drinking alcohol, they can get it from their friends parents." >This is also a true statement, but happens far less than it does with social media (or other violent or otherwise undesired media). There is a difference between parent giving kid a lesson about alcohol (which the poster above is proposing), and just starting to drink with your underage kid (which you are comparing to)

I'm not saying a parent would start drinking with their underage kids, I'm saying kids can often get alcohol themselves from their friends parents (either directly or indirectly) even if their own parents tell them they shouldn't drink and don't give them any.

It still happens, but it's a lot less socially acceptable, and it happens a lot less.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#163

Post by whitemary »

CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #102
AmericanChopper wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left/right view of the political spectrum doesn’t accurately characterise politics anywhere. Almost every political party in western democracies are “liberal” in the classical sense. The only generalisation I think reliably separates left/right is the level of government intervention, in both economic and social issues, that they ideologically support. But I don’t think that translates very well into the level of…

> Almost every political party in western democracies are “liberal” in the classical sense. There is an interesting case made[1] that while this used to be true, it is actually not the case any more and that things are starting to become rather anti-liberal on both sides of the political spectrum. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/102146148-what-s-our-pro...

The term for this is "neoliberal." Classical liberalism birthed the Gilded Age and the series of economic failures that gave rise to communism and WW2. Neoliberalism encompasses a series of ongoing experiments with micromanaging economic tendencies. It will most likely die an even worse death than classical liberalism.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#164

Post by lazyeye »

ilyt wrote: post #146
KaiserPro wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing it on your platform, (and it applies to Everyone not just tiktok) Isn't right. Negligently letting it be pushed onto people is much worse. Imagine if facebook were doing the same thing now, there would me massive uproar.

Yeah random acts of censorship for "good of the people", what can go bad /s by all means put a content warning or maybe a suicide prevention hotline or other help but I'm tired of clowns trying to solve any problem with "bad content" with censorship. Like that didn't misfire enough times in history...

Like technology doesnt progress and we should just give up /s

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#165

Post by chimpanzee »

ilyt wrote: post #146
KaiserPro wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing it on your platform, (and it applies to Everyone not just tiktok) Isn't right. Negligently letting it be pushed onto people is much worse. Imagine if facebook were doing the same thing now, there would me massive uproar.

Yeah random acts of censorship for "good of the people", what can go bad /s by all means put a content warning or maybe a suicide prevention hotline or other help but I'm tired of clowns trying to solve any problem with "bad content" with censorship. Like that didn't misfire enough times in history...

I’m tired of clowns conflating algorithm adjustments with “random acts of censorship”.

If you have a problem with it, you should instead be demanding an open index of all content on these platforms so that you can be assured that all information submitted is available and free from real censorship.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#166

Post by lazyeye »

fdsaklvjalkj1 wrote: post #140
yellow_lead wrote: post #106

Although TikTok should do better to demote these kinds of videos, I can't buy the conspiracy theory that this is done intentionally. Anyone who knows a bit about recommendation systems can understand that watching depressing videos will get you more in your feed. Collaborative filtering with i.e watch time as a signal will lead someone who watches them to more.

Literally nobody's suggesting this is done intentionally. Not the article, and not in any comments here. So why even bring it up? It's completely disingenuous imho.

Its this kind of gray area where dont appear to be doing anything intentional to stop it either.

A bit like the production of fentanyl precursor chemicals and their export to Mexico...

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#167

Post by lazyeye »

jrm4 wrote: post #92

This still feels like a hit piece, designed to favor e.g. Meta et al against Tiktok. While I have concerns about the above, I am MUCH more concerned that through this and Twitter's recent changes, we're slowly losing extremely valuable "alternative news sources." and that these are mostly a result of quiet socio-politcal interests, and not for many (or any) genuine concerns for safety (i.e. Facebook and Instagram wil…

Like facebook doesnt get bad press too..

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#168

Post by Dig1t »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #137
Dig1t wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Facebook and Instagram are not controlled by the CCP.

Banning an app because it's controlled by a person or persons with ideas you don't like.

The CCP is more than "a person".

The CCP is an adversarial government with a strong incentive to weaken the US.

Talking about the CCP as if it were just some people with different ideas is not a good faith argument.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#169

Post by 4gotunameagain »

Jochim wrote: post #109
dkn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent poster is pointing out that there are more ways of discriminating traffic than just a domain name. Such as geographic location, device IDs, etc. All of which are commonly used. It's not proof of what is being claimed, but they are variables that would need to be controlled before being confident that Douyin is or is not adjusting content to foreign or domestic users.

I did consider that. Traffic discrimination certainly occurs. However, I don't believe it's presence supports the claim in this case. The original claim is that Douyin promotes "wholesome" educational content, whereas TikTok is manipulating the west with pornography and other depravities. Anecdotal observations gathered through the web UI of each app, as an anonymous user, were that Douyin presented "pornographic" co…

Think about it a bit more clearly. Douyin in china might be entirely different than the douyin you see when you check it out with a western ip.

By checking douyin.com from my device, my ip and my advertising fingerprint, I cannot have any clue how douyin behaves if I download it from a chinese phone, in china.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#170

Post by Dah00n »

kwere wrote: post #13

Tik Tok is illegal in mainland China, the "local version" called douyin is heavily doctored to promote only positive messages. Ironic that CCP cry anti asian hate on the proposition to ban tik tok

It took my 2 minutes to prove that a lie by visiting their site and look at what is shown. It is just like Tiktok.
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