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TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

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Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#101

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

vorpalhex wrote: post #89
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they goto school and their friends say their parents are fucking jackasses and then they're bullied.

Talk through it. The field you want is "family dynamics". If things are already off the rails, find a mediator (doesn't have to be an actual legal mediator). 1. Understand their viewpoint and give them the tools to understand yours 2. Find common ground and define the areas of conflict 3. Reassure and reaffirm relationship 4. Repeat

I don't use TikTok or Insta, do I have to install them for this demonstration? Can I just ban them in my household or via parental controls?

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#102

Post by CuriousSkeptic »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #73
DubiousPusher wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the broken ass left/right political spectrum that's so popular in the U.S. Liberal != Leftist And neither a leftist nor a liberal has to answer for Communist China. Nor do you gain any special "objectivity" about China by being either one.

The left/right view of the political spectrum doesn’t accurately characterise politics anywhere. Almost every political party in western democracies are “liberal” in the classical sense. The only generalisation I think reliably separates left/right is the level of government intervention, in both economic and social issues, that they ideologically support. But I don’t think that translates very well into the level of…

> Almost every political party in western democracies are “liberal” in the classical sense.

There is an interesting case made[1] that while this used to be true, it is actually not the case any more and that things are starting to become rather anti-liberal on both sides of the political spectrum.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/102146148-what-s-our-pro...

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#103

Post by jandrese »

rchaud wrote: post #98
greenhearth wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a chapter in Malcolm Gladwell's famous "The Tipping Point" that deals with waves of teenage suicides. He describes that a single suicide acts as a subliminal permission for this behavior to be mimicked. This permission is sent out as a beacon and susceptible agents replicate this behavior. I forget the details of it, but the point was that this could be extended to other behavior as well, possibly all behavio…

Gladwell's a good writer, but almost never backs up his positions with empirical evidence. I don't mind too much because I like his writing, but I wouldn't really trust his theories too much because he is a storyteller first.

He has a bad habit of cherry picking data to support his point.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#104

Post by s0rce »

Dig1t wrote: post #8

Seriously though, why haven't we banned TikTok yet? There is no legitimate reason to allow them to keep pushing disinfo here. There are already tons of replacements lined up ready to replace it, it would not hurt anyone in the US at all to ban it.

Why ban tiktok and not facebook + instagram?

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#105

Post by rchaud »

lnsru wrote: post #21

The question is how to keep kids off social media. I am very thankful neighbor mom, who bought her son a smart watch and not a cheap android phone. Good example for other kids. It’s clear, that departments with lots of clever people are doing to lock young kids in the phones. And only parents can protect them.

Precisely.

The real national security issue is if a major power can weaken a rival power to a significant degree without even raising a weapon. That indicates an enormous lack of resilience for a culture that prizes free expression, warts and all.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#106

Post by yellow_lead »

Although TikTok should do better to demote these kinds of videos, I can't buy the conspiracy theory that this is done intentionally. Anyone who knows a bit about recommendation systems can understand that watching depressing videos will get you more in your feed. Collaborative filtering with i.e watch time as a signal will lead someone who watches them to more.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#107

Post by dehrmann »

sandman8 wrote: post #74
vlunkr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a completely leftist liberal I'm confused. Do you think the CPP is liberal? It's very authoritarian.

In contemporary American politics, "liberal" and "authoritarian" are often overlapping categories. The two-party system makes for all sorts of weird alliances of distinct groups getting lumped together- there's really no reason that one's opinions on gun rights should be related to one's opinions on energy policy, or why one's opinion on abortion should be related to one's opinion on foreign affairs policy, but with…

I'm amazed at how people will happily (enough) coalesce into two parties and align their views accordingly. Maybe it's just an exercise in dimensionality reduction.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#108

Post by whitemary »

rchaud wrote: post #95
4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

CNN America shows the most ridiculous rage-bait every hour, on the hour. But CNN International (airing in non-American markets) is significantly more toned down because it tries to compete with BBC News, France24 and NHK. Maybe Tiktok is just trying to give the market what it wants? Idiotic stunts were going viral years before TikTok existed.

This is perfectly compatible with parent's theory.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#109

Post by Jochim »

dkn wrote: post #81
Jochim wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could easily see for yourself by visiting the link in the previous comment. For what it's worth. Four out of the first five videos I saw on Douyin were sexualised in some way, the first was of a train driver. I scrolled through 20 or 30 of the videos on TikTok's website and didn't find anything close.

I think the parent poster is pointing out that there are more ways of discriminating traffic than just a domain name. Such as geographic location, device IDs, etc. All of which are commonly used. It's not proof of what is being claimed, but they are variables that would need to be controlled before being confident that Douyin is or is not adjusting content to foreign or domestic users.

I did consider that. Traffic discrimination certainly occurs. However, I don't believe it's presence supports the claim in this case.

The original claim is that Douyin promotes "wholesome" educational content, whereas TikTok is manipulating the west with pornography and other depravities.

Anecdotal observations gathered through the web UI of each app, as an anonymous user, were that Douyin presented "pornographic" content, whereas TikTok did not.

The original claim only stands if we accept that ByteDance is:

* Allowing a vast quantity of sexually explicit content to be posted to Douyin.

* Not showing that content to their users in China but only to western users of Douyin, despite being presented entirely in Chinese.

While also:

* Targeting western users of TikTok with pornography and explicit videos.

* Not showing any of that content in their web UI, despite it quickly becoming the entirety of the Douyin one.

I find it hard to believe that this would be the case. A sanitised Douyin and depraved TikTok, or both being depraved, would have supported the idea. The behaviour that was observed runs entirely counter to the claim.

Frankly, the opinion does not appear to be grounded in reality but comes instead from a place of insecurity regarding our social values. Consider whether any western platform promotes science and engineering over pornography, Twitter and Instagram allow much more explicit content than TikTok, and then ask why TikTok seems to have been singled out.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#110

Post by pphysch »

Name_Chawps wrote: post #85
nineplay wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the conspiracy theory I 100% believe in. I don't think the reason to ban TikTok is that it gathers information, I think the reason to ban it is that its ranking algorithm is deliberately destructive. Maybe it's a coincidence that all the dangerous stunts and vandalism "pranks" come from TikTok and not Meta and Twitter, but I don't buy it. I'm leftist liberal and I have no particular paranoia about China, but I'm…

It is not unreasonable to believe in conspiracy theories involving China, because they have a centralized, authoritarian government, which means that true conspiracies occur frequently, and are mandated by the government.

"Centralized, authoritarian government" is a tautology.
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