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US could soon approve MDMA therapy

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Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#211

Post by rootusrootus »

JAlexoid wrote: post #199
Alupis wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreigner views are readily dismissed because they are based on biased, sensationalized narrative-driven media coverage of rare events. You don't get US small-town local news in the EU, for instance, so have no reference for how many non-violent stories are aired by comparison - or how many stories cover a happy ending of a homeowner defending themselves successfully. You only get the bad stuff. Imagine if we got wee…

> Americans would start to believe you Europeans really need to get that knife situation under control. A lot of Americans unironically do believe that.

You might be overestimating how many Americans think anything at all about Europe. I suspect that the US is a lot more prevalent in European news than Europe is in US news.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#212

Post by soylentcola »

Kirth wrote: post #183
hammyhavoc wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's going to replace ADHD medication whatsoever. How would that even work?

By fixing the underlying conditions that lead to the behaviour classified as ADHD rather than depending on stimulants as a(n admittedly very effective) crutch to power through them.

From what I understand, ADHD is typically thought to be the result of an inefficient (outside of an accepted typical range) reward/reinforcement system in the brain - whether due to not producing enough of the relevant neurotransmitters, or not being "sensitive" enough to them (yes, this is oversimplified).

How would MDMA (or any drug) alter this? Stimulants used to treat ADHD typically work by either getting you to produce more of those neurotransmitters or getting them to stick around for longer by inhibiting reuptake. I'm not sure of any drug or treatment that could permanently change these things in the brain.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#213

Post by bnjms »

specproc wrote: post #59
thejackgoode wrote: post #7

Can someone share any relevant experience with this? Best would be if you did it properly under supervision of clinical professional, or if you are a professional here, by any chance. Doesn’t matter if it’s US or not.

Only recreational. I've taken MDMA many times in my life and -- presumably like most people who have -- can see why it's got therapeutic potential. Honestly though, I'm not convinced about it in a clinical setting, unless there's a particularly severe issue that needs addressing. I reckon most people are best off just buying some, getting together with a couple of very good mates on a nice day, rolling out into the c…

I disagree about a clinical setting, though I think I mostly agree overall.

Mainly I fear people will read this and mistake it for a defense of MDMA as a drug for going out with your mates. I think this can be helpful for some and very helpful for others but not as helpful as a clinical setting. Where a clinical setting is a therapists office and not a cold clinic room.

I do think people would do just as well or better with a couple good mates, a nice set and setting like you described, and some intentionality (vaguely even) about why they are going on the trip. The problem is many don’t have a couple good mates, or don’t know how to talk things through with themselves or otherwise, and would benefit from guidance. Better if people go into it with an agenda like a therapist would have.

Edit: The reason this bothers me is because I’ve tried to think through what gave the few old hippies I’ve met burnout. And maybe they were just high but I fear it was psychedelics too often and for people on message boards to assume MDMA discussions are the same as psychedelic discussions when the dosing patterns I’ve heard discussed are very different.

This is I’m content with these synthetic drugs remaining prescription only. Having a system about it supports cultural expectations. The MAPS guys are really doing it right. The only problem is our system that doesn’t get approval for drugs out of patent. e.g. ketamine/s-ketamine

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#214

Post by taeric »

Alupis wrote: post #169
QuercusMax wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This past week in the US there have been several stories about people who were shot after ringing a doorbell or pulling into someone's driveway. Reducing the number of guns means that these people would not be able to enact this type of senseless violence. It would also certainly cut down on the numbers of toddlers shooting their siblings.

The notion that taking away legal guns from legal gun owners will somehow reduce illegal violence is about as absurd as outlawing drugs. People who want to do illegal drugs have had zero problems acquiring them, despite near infinite resources plowed into stopping them by governments at all levels. Most people gleefully chant "The war on drugs has failed"...yet, "The war on guns" will somehow succeed?

This does stand in contrast to other nations not having the problem to the degree that we do.

And... really, any other evidence. It is illegal for you to build and detonate a bomb in the city. Not shockingly, we have few incidents of this happening. Far fewer than random gun violence in places you are allowed to carry guns.

Heck, just set realistic goals here. We make it illegal to drive without a seatbelt, and have largely succeeded in getting folks to wear a belt while in a car. Something far far easier to just not do than the active "seek out an illegal gun" idea that you posit would continue to be a thing.

We control fireworks more readily than we do guns. Again, no surprise that we have far fewer counts of incidents with fireworks. And again, also no surprise it isn't zero.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#215

Post by rootusrootus »

BurningFrog wrote: post #158
JAlexoid wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not my experience. You can have someone with cancer openly talk about it, but any psychological issue is treated like it's your own personal fault.

"Europe" is many very different countries.

This applies as well to the US in many cases. I think Europeans frequently underestimate how much of our governmental authority rests with the States. Policies vary considerably across the nation, so any generalizations should be approached carefully.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#216

Post by refurb »

no_wizard wrote: post #145
mardifoufs wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but this isn't really true. The country with the most anti-depressant intake is Iceland , the US is around second or third place, yet the other countries in the "top ten" of antidepressant usage per capita are almost all european nations. The USA isn't an outlier, but I guess we really can't escape the "do americans really, really do X?" even when it is trivially easy to verify. The funny thing is that the reason…

In fact, the US[0] and New Zealand are the only countries were drug advertising like we see in the US are even legal. This absolutely will have an affect on perception [0]: https://www.health.harvard.edu/medications/do-not-get-sold-o...

Most antidepressants have been generic for decades.

There hasnt been advertising for them for a long tkmr.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#217

Post by rootusrootus »

repler wrote: post #181
bluetomcat wrote: post #20

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

The societal factors you mention are due to - unfortunately - freedom. Humans are innately horrible. Freedom also means freedom to be horrible. Unfortunately.

> Humans are innately horrible.

You're even more pessimistic than me ;-). I think that most humans are good or at least neutral, but the horrible ones are a lot more visible. And a lot of what we call horrible is just rhetoric -- when the shit hits the fan, people pull together, even when they're ideologically opposed. At least in my experience. There are outliers, of course.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#218

Post by refurb »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #207
JAlexoid wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murder rates have been going down in all developed nations, regardless of the gun ownership statistics. Even being gun regulation advocate, I cannot accept the premise that banning guns will do much to reduce murder rates.

But the homicide rate is still significantly higher where there is lax gun control right?

No, actually.

Vermont has allowed people to carry a concealed weapons without a license - literally buy a handgun, stick it in your pants - and has had a consistently lower murder rate than Washington DC which banned handguns until recently.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#219

Post by BurningFrog »

rootusrootus wrote: post #215
BurningFrog wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Europe" is many very different countries.

This applies as well to the US in many cases. I think Europeans frequently underestimate how much of our governmental authority rests with the States. Policies vary considerably across the nation, so any generalizations should be approached carefully.

As a European who moved to California, I agree up to a point.

There are huge differences in this giant country, and foreigners too easily think it's just Manhattan and LA, from watching TV.

But I would say the ~50 countries of Europe is an order of magnitude more diverse than the 50 US states.

Some Americans throw around "in Europe they do X" statements, which usually just mean they observed that in the 1-3 cities they visited.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#220

Post by eimrine »

bnjms wrote: post #202
hammyhavoc wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's going to replace ADHD medication whatsoever. How would that even work?

For non hyperactive types I believe there is commonly anxiety with the ADD which is alleviated by the small dose of amphetamine. Maybe MDMA helps reduce anxiety for the medium term after a dose? I don’t know if that’s been found scientifically yet. I do know MDMA clears anxiety during the high. Knowing what the lack of anxiety feels like could be very powerful paired with therapy to train a body to return to lower an…

Druggies who was on high doses of this report about "suicide tuesdays".
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