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US could soon approve MDMA therapy

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Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#121

Post by martopix »

JAlexoid wrote: post #72
bluetomcat wrote: post #20

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

Take it from someone that's not from US - your comment is ignorant and toxic. In US mental conditions are undertreated, while outside of US they are underdiagnosed and self medicated. I'm from Lithuania, one of the "leaders" in suicide... which are easily preventable by normalizing mental healthcare. The stigmatization of mental conditions in Europe is sky high, to the point that it's barely possible to be seen as sa…

> The stigmatization of mental conditions in Europe is sky high, to the point that it's barely possible to be seen as sane if you're just seeing a therapist.

I think this is just not true. I've never seen so many people talk openly about seeing a therapist as in the last few years. I'm almost surprised by how mainstream it has become.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#122

Post by KyeRussell »

adamq_q wrote: post #111
hellweaver666 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

erm... reduce the number of traumatic, life-threatening situations by taking away the guns? Get your police force under control and stop trying to control peoples minds and bodies could be a good start?

Someone has been spending a little too much time on Reddit

Oh please. Survey 100 random non-US residents and I’ll eat my hat if the majorly don’t say that US gun policy is absurd.

The typical American argument is that the US is exceptional and that the views of “these damn foreigners” don’t matter.

I on the other hand seldom hear Americans actively argue that US gun policy is looked upon favourably by the worldwide community. This is exactly what you’re doing by implying that a non-US resident speaking against US gun policy holds a certain political persuasion which means that they should be dismissed. The more likely reality: they have a very typical perspective that transcends the US.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#123

Post by notch898c »

QuercusMax wrote: post #116
bheadmaster wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fairly skeptical of the claim that banning guns would significantly reduce gun violence. People who commit the most gun violence crimes (criminals) will find a way to get guns regardless of the laws. I live in a country where it's very hard to get weapons legally, yet almost every drug bust in the news also contains a significant amount of confiscated firearms.

This past week in the US there have been several stories about people who were shot after ringing a doorbell or pulling into someone's driveway. Reducing the number of guns means that these people would not be able to enact this type of senseless violence. It would also certainly cut down on the numbers of toddlers shooting their siblings.

How do I protect my toddler from all the criminals who keep their guns? Call the police and wait 15 minutes?

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#124

Post by mardifoufs »

bluetomcat wrote: post #20

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

Ok but this isn't really true. The country with the most anti-depressant intake is Iceland, the US is around second or third place, yet the other countries in the "top ten" of antidepressant usage per capita are almost all european nations. The USA isn't an outlier, but I guess we really can't escape the "do americans really, really do X?" even when it is trivially easy to verify.

The funny thing is that the reason Americans know the names of their medications is almost the exact same reason people seem to think the USA are always some sort of outlier; they hear about it more in the media! Branding for drugs is much more emphasized in the US.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#125

Post by JAlexoid »

starkd wrote: post #53
toddmorey wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression and anxiety are complicated. For some patients, taking medication can be transformative, especially when combined with other modalities of treatment. In my experience, you still have to put in the work, but the right medication can make it possible. If you are worried about patients being ostracized for declining medication, worry too about ostracizing patients for whom it could be really effective.

But many times the medication are so good in the short term, it is very easy to forego doing the work.

That's why people use(and abuse) all kinds of substances.

It's just your social acceptance of a certain substance is deemed "acceptable"(alcohol), while others are deemed "bad"(THC).

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#126

Post by wnolens »

Glench wrote: post #18

Personally, I left tech in large part to become a therapist doing psychedelic-assisted clinical work when it becomes legal. It really does seem like it can be a potent tool for relieving great suffering. You can read a little about my story here: http://glench.com/WhyIQuitTechAndBecameATherapist/

Nice to read your journey. Glad you found a way through.

I had a similar experience to the first half of your story. Was so unfulfilled in tech that I ended up quitting and took time off not working, trying lots of different things, getting very frustrated and depressed along the way.

I did try LSD (ok, a lot of LSD) and instead of it helping me process/sort through/integrate some of my troubles it added new ones and created recurring intrusive thoughts. Overall, bad experience & wish I didn't do that.

After ~2y outside of full time employment (i did some contract work eventually), I found myself more depressed than when I left. I had tried a lot of things (hobbies for joy, tech in non-FTE ways, entrepreneurship, travel, classes, intimate relationships..) but found no grander meaning or goals at the end of it, just some isolated interesting experiences (some were peak positive, others a pit). So back to tech. I don't love it, but having an external demand of me was sufficient to lift me out of the pit of despair i was in.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#127

Post by eimrine »

starkd wrote: post #102
abyssin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe in the medical potential of compounds like MDMA and I don’t think the science is especially flawed. What I’m questioning is the motivation of some lobbying organizations’ members.

But do you believe it because of the science or because you really really want to believe it? That's a serious question. I don't expect a ready answer.

Your forgot to mention one more possible case: it is not science because of some political reasons.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#128

Post by JAlexoid »

martopix wrote: post #121
JAlexoid wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take it from someone that's not from US - your comment is ignorant and toxic. In US mental conditions are undertreated, while outside of US they are underdiagnosed and self medicated. I'm from Lithuania, one of the "leaders" in suicide... which are easily preventable by normalizing mental healthcare. The stigmatization of mental conditions in Europe is sky high, to the point that it's barely possible to be seen as sa…

> The stigmatization of mental conditions in Europe is sky high, to the point that it's barely possible to be seen as sane if you're just seeing a therapist. I think this is just not true. I've never seen so many people talk openly about seeing a therapist as in the last few years. I'm almost surprised by how mainstream it has become.

Not my experience.

You can have someone with cancer openly talk about it, but any psychological issue is treated like it's your own personal fault.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#129

Post by chriscappuccio »

"an era of psychedelic medicine"

these platitudes are deceiving

sure, some people will get an advantage from these treatments

never the less, this is no revolution. in US during the early 80s we had MDMA being made in huge quantities and being consumed in clubs, in addition to therapists using it in guided sessions.

for 40 years since, the likes of rick doblin and his associates have been trying to push for this treatment. the reason the government is now seriously considering this is because of the needs of combat veterans. it works for PTSD where nothing else in the pharmacopeia does. there are very strong psychedelics like 5-meo-dmt and ibogaine and to some degree ayahuasca and mushrooms that work perhaps even better. that's basically it for treating serious mental problems in post-combat vets. for many people in those extreme mental health crisis situations, they are coming to private clinics outside of the USA to receive these treatments, the government needs to fix this situation because it's ridiculous.

despite all this, the use case for MDMA and other psychedelics in the general population is less well understood. certainly, we should explore it, and perhaps it will help to improve our relationships with these drugs in general to have a positive, healthy way to use them that steers them us the right direction. at least, a framework that we can reference.

i just don't know that all of this is going to be "an era" or a revolution or whatever people have in their minds. mental health in this country is at al all time low as far as i can tell. if we can even make a dent, that's great. if we start to improve some previously unfixable situations for people, great. we'll need our best abilities to get through what's coming next.

as an aside, rick doblin took almost 40 years to do what peter thiel's company did in 4.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#130

Post by PuppyTailWags »

bluetomcat wrote: post #98
fasterik wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a few issues with your argument. Just because something has underlying social factors doesn't mean that it shouldn't also be treated with drugs and therapy. The latest wave of psychedelic research is not simply pushing a prescription drug; all of the research on MDMA, psilocybin, etc. is finding that these drugs work within a clinical setting paired with therapy. Also, I wasn't able to find a source saying that…

There's something about American culture that facilitates various psychological conditions. The aggressive, over-expressive, utilitarian individualism, the inability to just stay calm and quiet and think in solitude, the emphasis on material wealth and well-being and looking "sexy", the social warriorism and activism on the same issues.

I think America is too vast and diverse to be described that way. Your description doesn't at all describe the no-gaudiness humble-behavior expected in most white, mid-western communities. Utilitarian individualism doesn't at all describe the vast swarth of America's most religious peoples. E.g. The Amish, the Johovah's Witness, Fundamentalists, Mormons, etc.
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