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Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#81

Post by switch007 »

hasmolo wrote: post #57
mawadev wrote: post #40

It is truly remarkable to which great lengths people go to justify their unhealthy relationship with social media. It is nearly the same as telling an alcoholic they have an alcohol problem and then hearing excuse after excuse and re-framing and mental gymnastics to jump around the elephant in the room. I'm glad write-ups like this one are a thing. Maybe our parents were indeed right when they told us we are glued to…

this glued to devices meme is tired. look at a picture of folks on public transport from before phones. note that _everyone_ is reading a newspaper or magazine. i know it seems crazy, but humans reading information is a constant in public, and the only reason you didn't see more of it in the past is that you were part of the group consuming media, while also assigning intellectual value to the fact that a periodical…

Were you there? I was at the tail end of it - I used to take the train regularly in the mid 90s (to the present day). I remember some people with newspaper but it definitely wasn’t everyone.

And I just found about 15 pictures in a quick Google images search from the 70s and 80s that disprove your assertion.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#82

Post by ethanbond »

tmikaeld wrote: post #62
psychphysic wrote: post #21

It's quite hard for me to judge this topic because I am so thoroughly convinced that social media is toxic for mental health. I think unfortunately it has become pervasive enough that you can't avoid experiencing it's toxic influence. There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground and like the use of stocks in medieval times the concept of cancellation is much more power than any reality. T…

> Everyone's in a gang and god help you if you aren't everyone will have a go at you Is this really a modern-tech thing? More like, it's easier and in the open now.

Yes tech does fundamentally change this. Prior to social media, the set of everyone’s gang options was defined by a relatively small geographic area. This means people were largely looking at and likely caring about the same reality, same set of problems, same considerations around the problem, same individuals in mind, etc.

Now you have people forming quasi-religious conviction on issues that are not directly relevant to them whatsoever and looking at completely distinct “data” to inform those opinions.

Elections will continue to get gnarlier and gnarlier because they’re one of the few occasions we need to converge and reconcile our different realities. Between elections, we take refuge in completely distinct information environments than the people who live literally next door. This is completely new. Started with radio, amplified by TV, perfected by internet media.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#83

Post by rqtwteye »

psychphysic wrote: post #21

It's quite hard for me to judge this topic because I am so thoroughly convinced that social media is toxic for mental health. I think unfortunately it has become pervasive enough that you can't avoid experiencing it's toxic influence. There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground and like the use of stocks in medieval times the concept of cancellation is much more power than any reality. T…

I think social media amplified trends that were there before. I remember when I came to the US in 2000 it was pretty fashionable to say “I am angry” all the time. And the hatred at politicians was pretty pronounced too. And the cable news was already spreading fear and anger. Personally I think modern media starting with cable TV allowed hatemongers to easily reach large groups. The internet just made it much worse.

I just wonder how we can get out of this. My main observations are only from the US but the thinking that there are “others” who can’t be understood or talked to but need to eliminated is quite deeply ingrained in a lot of people.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#85

Post by n4r9 »

hasmolo wrote: post #57
mawadev wrote: post #40

It is truly remarkable to which great lengths people go to justify their unhealthy relationship with social media. It is nearly the same as telling an alcoholic they have an alcohol problem and then hearing excuse after excuse and re-framing and mental gymnastics to jump around the elephant in the room. I'm glad write-ups like this one are a thing. Maybe our parents were indeed right when they told us we are glued to…

this glued to devices meme is tired. look at a picture of folks on public transport from before phones. note that _everyone_ is reading a newspaper or magazine. i know it seems crazy, but humans reading information is a constant in public, and the only reason you didn't see more of it in the past is that you were part of the group consuming media, while also assigning intellectual value to the fact that a periodical…

That's like saying there's nothing wrong with giving thalidomide to pregnant women, because pregnant women have always taken herbal supplements.

The obvious difference is that newspapers contain a relatively small amount of information packaged in a non-interactive, non-targeted, and less mind-absorbing format. People don't read newspapers for the dopamine hit, but for lack of something else to do.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#87

Post by watwut »

joenot443 wrote: post #20
frostburg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "coddling" one has always been a bad faith argument; a post hoc rationalization for political goals.

You’ll have to be more specific. What political goals do you think are being accomplished here? For 11 years now Haidt has very deliberately identified as a centrist, partially because folks like yourself unfamiliar with his work find habit in dismissing his research as being politically motivated. Just because a researchers findings don’t align with YOUR politics doesn’t make the research itself politically motivate…

Being centrist IS a political position. The one that status quo is good and those who challenge it are doing something inherently wrong.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#88

Post by AlexandrB »

Entinel wrote: post #70
iamerroragent wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay but how are we supposed to get teen girls not to compare themselves to the looks of global stars? This existed before social media. At best I can see it being a catalyst here and so sure limit or ban social media (at least for under 18s ~ 25s, whatever we agree on is a developed adult brain). Lowering the percentage of teens with mental health issues is a good thing. However that doesn't stop teens from comparin…

No one really talks about it but I think it is a symptom of bad parenting. How many times have people sat their kid down and explained these Hollywood types are not the average looking person?

Today, you also have to explain that even the pictures of your friends are not "the average looking person" because almost everything online gets fed through various filters.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#89

Post by AnimalMuppet »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #72
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am always ready to yell at the cloud for that. Yell at the cloud? Nicely done.

No, I am just German and this is a language disability.

Well, in English it became a beautiful pun.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#90

Post by bradleyjg »

psychphysic wrote: post #21

It's quite hard for me to judge this topic because I am so thoroughly convinced that social media is toxic for mental health. I think unfortunately it has become pervasive enough that you can't avoid experiencing it's toxic influence. There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground and like the use of stocks in medieval times the concept of cancellation is much more power than any reality. T…

Twitter really is the worst. At least the other platforms have some good mixed in with the bad. It is nice to stay vaguely connected to people in a sort-of holiday card way.

Twitter has nothing to redeem it. Even in communities where there’s attempts at substantive conversation the medium makes a horrible mess to follow.

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