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Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#61

Post by LapsangGuzzler »

kuschku wrote: post #49
LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something has to be behind the seemingly coordinated rise in depression among children globally, that's the leading indicator he's using to assess the problem. His argument is that it can't be anything other than social media. You're making the case in the micro scale: what is one person's relationship with depression and social media, and he's arguing in the macro scale. Something has caused depression to spike in c…

[flagged]

You are describing a commonly shared sentiment of today. This spike started nearly a decade ago, long before our current economic situation materialized.

To your point, who largely gets to decide which news stories get aggregated and which don't? Who has an outsized influence in shaping people's realities? By many metrics, times are tough, but by many other metrics, we are living in prosperous times as well.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#62

Post by tmikaeld »

psychphysic wrote: post #21

It's quite hard for me to judge this topic because I am so thoroughly convinced that social media is toxic for mental health. I think unfortunately it has become pervasive enough that you can't avoid experiencing it's toxic influence. There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground and like the use of stocks in medieval times the concept of cancellation is much more power than any reality. T…

> Everyone's in a gang and god help you if you aren't everyone will have a go at you

Is this really a modern-tech thing? More like, it's easier and in the open now.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#63

Post by paganel »

woodruffw wrote: post #5

Just to levy a single criticism among several: I find Haidt’s rebuttal of the climate change hypothesis unconvincing: fears around climate change are not “energizing” in the way that prior crises are, in a significant part because public sentiment around climate change is that we’re already doomed in a way that isn’t really possible with social crises. Similarly: I don’t think most teenage girls were voraciously read…

> a significant part because public sentiment around climate change is that we’re already doomed in a way that isn’t really possible with social crises.

That sentiment is only valid for a specific world demographic, I’d say Western people under 40 years of age (which also greatly matches this forum’s users, I would say). But as Eastern European guy in my early 40s I certainly do not match that “doom” feeling, and looking around at people my age and older (like my parents) I would say that lack of trust in the coming climate Apocalypse is shared.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#64

Post by misnome »

LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #39
raxxorraxor wrote: post #16

> girls who spend more than 4 hours a day on social media have two to three times the rate of depression as girls who spend an hour or less. Not that it proves anything, but the converse argument, that depressed girls spend more time on social media or online in general, should also be examined. If the data could support this thesis to a similar degree, there is no conclusive statement about social media really induc…

Something has to be behind the seemingly coordinated rise in depression among children globally, that's the leading indicator he's using to assess the problem. His argument is that it can't be anything other than social media. You're making the case in the micro scale: what is one person's relationship with depression and social media, and he's arguing in the macro scale. Something has caused depression to spike in c…

> What could it be?

The state of the world? Better measurement and diagnosis of depression?

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#65

Post by mensetmanusman »

frostburg wrote: post #26
spacephysics wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Anti” coddling to me is rejecting the notion of participation trophies, emphasizing in a healthy way losing and winning. Pushing through discomfort and, god forbid, seeking out discomfort. Being OK and perhaps wanting discomfort. Knowing that discomfort is 9/10 a healthy stress that builds you. Not playing the victim. Taking responsibility for your circumstances, no matter how shit of a hand you were dealt. Yeah it…

Your model of a nuclear "stable household" is very recent, very untested compared to standard practice during most of human history and societes. Putting is on a pedestal without any quantitative evidence isn't wise.

Assuming you mean nuclear family as having two married parents, and not also that these parents are geographically isolated:

Lots of quantitative evidence that having two committed parents means healthier kids (IQ, emotionally, physically, etc.)

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#66

Post by misnome »

LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #61
kuschku wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You are describing a commonly shared sentiment of today. This spike started nearly a decade ago, long before our current economic situation materialized. To your point, who largely gets to decide which news stories get aggregated and which don't? Who has an outsized influence in shaping people's realities? By many metrics, times are tough, but by many other metrics, we are living in prosperous times as well.

> long before our current economic situation materialized

2008 was 15 years ago

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#67

Post by badkitty99 »

tmikaeld wrote: post #62
psychphysic wrote: post #21

It's quite hard for me to judge this topic because I am so thoroughly convinced that social media is toxic for mental health. I think unfortunately it has become pervasive enough that you can't avoid experiencing it's toxic influence. There has been a complete loss in any interest in meeting a middle ground and like the use of stocks in medieval times the concept of cancellation is much more power than any reality. T…

> Everyone's in a gang and god help you if you aren't everyone will have a go at you Is this really a modern-tech thing? More like, it's easier and in the open now.

[dead]

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#68

Post by somedude895 »

iamerroragent wrote: post #55
knallfrosch wrote: post #11

Kudos to Mr Haidt. I wouldn't have the patience to explain over and over again why being addicted to your phone and comparing your looks to global superstars makes girls lonely and depressed. People will argue over percentage points of an r-value instead of simply asking three girls whether using Instagram four hours a day makes them happy.

Okay but how are we supposed to get teen girls not to compare themselves to the looks of global stars? This existed before social media. At best I can see it being a catalyst here and so sure limit or ban social media (at least for under 18s ~ 25s, whatever we agree on is a developed adult brain). Lowering the percentage of teens with mental health issues is a good thing. However that doesn't stop teens from comparin…

You're never going to get people to not compare themselves with their peers. Comparing yourself through media like magazines etc has been the case for at least 50 years. The teen mental health epidemic has really started in 2012 is what Haidt is talking about.

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#69

Post by watwut »

iamerroragent wrote: post #55
knallfrosch wrote: post #11

Kudos to Mr Haidt. I wouldn't have the patience to explain over and over again why being addicted to your phone and comparing your looks to global superstars makes girls lonely and depressed. People will argue over percentage points of an r-value instead of simply asking three girls whether using Instagram four hours a day makes them happy.

Okay but how are we supposed to get teen girls not to compare themselves to the looks of global stars? This existed before social media. At best I can see it being a catalyst here and so sure limit or ban social media (at least for under 18s ~ 25s, whatever we agree on is a developed adult brain). Lowering the percentage of teens with mental health issues is a good thing. However that doesn't stop teens from comparin…

Well for one, it would require interest in teen girls that goes beyond "I need a talking point for culture war that I am currently waging".

Re: Why some researchers think I’m wrong about social media and mental illness

#70

Post by Entinel »

iamerroragent wrote: post #55
knallfrosch wrote: post #11

Kudos to Mr Haidt. I wouldn't have the patience to explain over and over again why being addicted to your phone and comparing your looks to global superstars makes girls lonely and depressed. People will argue over percentage points of an r-value instead of simply asking three girls whether using Instagram four hours a day makes them happy.

Okay but how are we supposed to get teen girls not to compare themselves to the looks of global stars? This existed before social media. At best I can see it being a catalyst here and so sure limit or ban social media (at least for under 18s ~ 25s, whatever we agree on is a developed adult brain). Lowering the percentage of teens with mental health issues is a good thing. However that doesn't stop teens from comparin…

No one really talks about it but I think it is a symptom of bad parenting. How many times have people sat their kid down and explained these Hollywood types are not the average looking person?
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