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Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

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Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#401

Post by pgorczak »

somenameforme wrote: post #316

There's kind of a fun brain teaser related to this. Imagine you're speaking to an entirely alien species in another dimension. And you're trying to describe "left" to them. It's impossible. I say it's a brain teaser only because this sounds highly improbable at first. Forwards and backwards can be described, and even up/down if we assume basic fundamental rules remain the same. Yet left and right? It seems impossible…

Yeah the handedness of a 3D coordinate system is a pretty arbitrary low level choice. You don’t even need to talk to aliens, just try implementing some geometric algorithm in Unity which uses a left-handed system.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#402

Post by pbhjpbhj »

alibarber wrote: post #189
mr_toad wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But usually the wipers and indicator controls are reversed, which can be embarrassing.

Coming from the UK to Aus / NZ I was feeling smug ;) - but of course, this caught me out. To be clear in the UK the wheel is on the right but the indicator is still on the left side of the wheel as in a European LHD car, just to keep things different.

It's not a UK thing (which side the indicator stem is), it's a manufacturer thing.

Like position of reverse gear on a H-style gear stick, some left-and-up, some right-and-down; some with a collar interlock, some with a button, some you push the whole stick down towards the ground ...

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#403

Post by wiredfool »

markus92 wrote: post #324
wiredfool wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inside is where the double yellow is.

Double yellow on the road in the UK? You got jokes my friend.

Double yellow means parking bay, right?

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#404

Post by qwertox »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

> in medical school is that left/right always refer to the patient's perspective.

What if the patient lies on his back vs on his stomach? Theoretically this should then revert left and right in addition to how the doctors are facing the patient, from their point of view.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#405

Post by TRiG_Ireland »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #387
russellbeattie wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Spain a computer is an ordenador. Spaniards hate anglicisms. Car is coche, not carro, email is correo electronico, zipper is cremallera. Lots of others.

Lots more Galicisms in Spain for sure :) probably easier to share words when you also share a land border.

Do Spanish-speaking and French-speaking areas actually share a border? I thought there was a buffer zone of Catalan and Basque. I'll need to check a map.

On checking, it looks like there is a short (but very mountainous) border: https://maps-spain.com/maps-spain-geography/spain-language-m...

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#406

Post by abenga »

leipert wrote: post #181
knifie_spoonie wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the shifting pattern is exactly the same.

Sibling comment mentions indicators and wipers being switched. Anecdote 1) In NZ I saw a car in the middle of a busy roundabout, wipers on, passengers visibly confused and crying. Anecdote 2) A kayak guide also mentioned, that if you see someone entering a roundabout, windshield wiping, on a sunny day, you just wait and let them do their thing. Anecdote 3) After a month in NZ I came back to Germany and actually muscl…

The wiper thing is marque dependent, even within countries. I live in East Africa, drive on the left. German cars (I've driven a few) seem to have wiper stalks on the right and indicator control on the left. Toyotas (and I guess other Japanese cars) I've driven have it on the opposite side. Whenever I drive a friend's car, I always hit the wipers a few times at the beginning of a trip before I acclimatize.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#407

Post by dsego »

denton-scratch wrote: post #352
dsego wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik, this is not the case in all other languages to have specific nautical terms for sides. I asked a sailor friend for the terminology in our language and it's just left side and right side/flank, seems pretty self explanatory, by convention you are orienting forwards. Like any profession though, having specific terminology helps distinguish from the outside group and maintain impression of expertise.

> seems pretty self explanatory On a big ship, like an aircraft carrier or cruiser, you can qite easily lose track of which direction is the prow (front). Many carrier crew rarely go up on deck. And if the ship happens to be sailing astern, left and right become ambiguous.

> you can qite easily lose track of which direction is the prow

If you don't where the prow is, how do you know where starboard is? I guess if the sailing direction is backwards, it might be confusing if you say "to your left", but if you say "left side", it should still be clear I think, maybe not.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#408

Post by HPsquared »

modernerd wrote: post #349
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just seems like an old convention that has stuck, seem'm much simpler to anyone not familiar with ships to say 'ships left' or 'ships right' than to have new words. We don't do this with cars. You have a left rear door, not a port rear door.

> We don't do this with cars. You have a left rear door, not a port rear door. “Driver side rear door” or “passenger side rear door” are pretty common, at least in the US and UK, where they mean the opposite. “Nearside“ (passenger side nearest curb in a right-hand drive vehicle driving on the left) and “offside” (driver side furthest from curb) are also used in the UK.

For repair instructions this actually causes a lot of confusion for someone in a right hand drive market. Half the time the repair instruction gets it wrong and would have been better saying left or right. Occasionally it is correct though if dealing with a part that's different in each market.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#409

Post by bearmode »

qwertox wrote: post #404
antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

> in medical school is that left/right always refer to the patient's perspective. What if the patient lies on his back vs on his stomach? Theoretically this should then revert left and right in addition to how the doctors are facing the patient, from their point of view.

The patient's left and patient's right are always going to be the same, regardless of which way the patient is facing. It'll change it from the doctor's perspective, but that's irrelevant since you're only looking at it from the patient's.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#410

Post by HPsquared »

philo23 wrote: post #365
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just seems like an old convention that has stuck, seem'm much simpler to anyone not familiar with ships to say 'ships left' or 'ships right' than to have new words. We don't do this with cars. You have a left rear door, not a port rear door.

I guess some could argue that we do have some special vocabulary for cars too. E.g. you don't call it the front/back door, you call it the bonnet/boot (or maybe hood/trunk depending where you're from) though that probably is stretching the definition of a door a little bit... but then you also have nearside and offside for passengers/drivers side, though that's probably a bit more of a technical term.

I always get confused by nearside and offside. Is it "near to the driver" or "near to the roadside"?
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