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Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

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Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#381

Post by wrigby »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

I also really like the theatrical world’s convention of “upstage” (further from the audience) and “downstage” (closer to the audience) - disambiguating the front and back of a stage.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#382

Post by loloquwowndueo »

narrator wrote: post #267
jjav wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat. Understatement of the week... pretty much everything on a boat has a different word for it. Often for practical reasons, sometimes purely traditional reasons. It is nice because it binds one to nautical tradition leading back centuries/millenia.

One interesting thing about middle ages technologies, like boats, is that the words in the different romance languages for things invented in this era are very different from each other. For example, in Spanish boat words like port and starboard are totally different[1]. Other examples of middle ages words that are very different: windmill = molino, wheelbarrow = carretilla. Words that refer to older things have more…

However in peninsular Spanish, computer = ordenador, the loan word is the French “ordinateur”.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#383

Post by ekianjo »

russellbeattie wrote: post #356
narrator wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting thing about middle ages technologies, like boats, is that the words in the different romance languages for things invented in this era are very different from each other. For example, in Spanish boat words like port and starboard are totally different[1]. Other examples of middle ages words that are very different: windmill = molino, wheelbarrow = carretilla. Words that refer to older things have more…

In Spain a computer is an ordenador. Spaniards hate anglicisms. Car is coche, not carro, email is correo electronico, zipper is cremallera. Lots of others.

Is carro used more in Mexico then ?

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#384

Post by pbhjpbhj »

HPsquared wrote: post #341
lostlogin wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is unlike for a doctor, where it's obvious which side is which: you can see the patient. This isn’t always true and it’s not always obvious. For example with imaging - axial slices of the patient through symmetrical structures. The brain, lower abdo, a single leg or arm etc, etc. There are conventions in image display for a reason - it is not obvious. For axial slices, as an observer, you are positioned as tho…

Shouldn't doctors simply use the Greek or Latin words for left and right?

Latin: sinister and dexter, I think they are used for parts of organs (eg liver); one source notes occulus sinister being used in the abbreviation OS for left eye.

Greek dexios and aristeros ... well dexter come from dexios", as does the chemical suffix -dextrin. Aristeros* is a euphemism, it means something like "best" (I wonder if that's the origin of 'put your best foot forward') ... I'm told that left-sided things were unlucky to the Greek speaking peoples and Greek language apparently compensated by describing that position positively.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#385

Post by ekianjo »

narrator wrote: post #267
jjav wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat. Understatement of the week... pretty much everything on a boat has a different word for it. Often for practical reasons, sometimes purely traditional reasons. It is nice because it binds one to nautical tradition leading back centuries/millenia.

One interesting thing about middle ages technologies, like boats, is that the words in the different romance languages for things invented in this era are very different from each other. For example, in Spanish boat words like port and starboard are totally different[1]. Other examples of middle ages words that are very different: windmill = molino, wheelbarrow = carretilla. Words that refer to older things have more…

Mexican spanish should not be the reference for what is said in spanish

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#386

Post by sergiosgc »

chewxy wrote: post #373
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just seems like an old convention that has stuck, seem'm much simpler to anyone not familiar with ships to say 'ships left' or 'ships right' than to have new words. We don't do this with cars. You have a left rear door, not a port rear door.

Cars are small and for the most part everyone in the car faces the same direction as the car itself. When you have a ship, you have 3 frames of references to contend with (self, ship, cardinal)

Four, actually. You also have the wind frame of reference, which is actually the most important (for sail boats). You don't turn left or right, you turn upwind or downwind.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#387

Post by loloquwowndueo »

russellbeattie wrote: post #356
narrator wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting thing about middle ages technologies, like boats, is that the words in the different romance languages for things invented in this era are very different from each other. For example, in Spanish boat words like port and starboard are totally different[1]. Other examples of middle ages words that are very different: windmill = molino, wheelbarrow = carretilla. Words that refer to older things have more…

In Spain a computer is an ordenador. Spaniards hate anglicisms. Car is coche, not carro, email is correo electronico, zipper is cremallera. Lots of others.

Lots more Galicisms in Spain for sure :) probably easier to share words when you also share a land border.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#388

Post by loloquwowndueo »

narrator wrote: post #267
jjav wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat. Understatement of the week... pretty much everything on a boat has a different word for it. Often for practical reasons, sometimes purely traditional reasons. It is nice because it binds one to nautical tradition leading back centuries/millenia.

One interesting thing about middle ages technologies, like boats, is that the words in the different romance languages for things invented in this era are very different from each other. For example, in Spanish boat words like port and starboard are totally different[1]. Other examples of middle ages words that are very different: windmill = molino, wheelbarrow = carretilla. Words that refer to older things have more…

Cheese is an interesting one - I would expect Spanish to share the word with French and Italian but it’s actually closer to English and Dutch.

French fromage Italian formagio

Spanish queso English cheese Dutch kaas

Languages are so weird :)

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#389

Post by scoopr »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

How about always using world relative words?

https://www.naturalnavigator.com/news/2010/09/guugu-yimithir...

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#390

Post by [deleted] »

acherion wrote: post #235
jojobas wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blinkers were always on the outside when most cars had manual transmissions, the opposite would be very inconvenient (and still is). Then somehow Britain didn't challenge the EU regulation that indicators must be on the left regardless of the driving side. Japanese and Korean cars still supply right-hand indicatored-cars to Japan, Australia and New Zealand, yet left-indicatored to the UK, go figure, European ones don…

The indicator should be on the outside, so you can change gear (in a manual transmission car) and indicate at the same time. It's just common sense. I am used to the indicators on the left though when driving my BMW, so I experience the classic "wipers instead of indicators" dance many times when I drive my wife's car. As most cars nowadays are automatics, I guess this reasoning is falling out of relevance more and m…

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