Why don’t more people live close to friends? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#541

Post by BenFranklin100 » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 1:40 AM UTC

TacticalCoder wrote: post #466

0zemp1c wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And we’ll wonder why the people in that cute little European town we visited that one time seemed so much happier. except they don't think that the Americans nod politely and whisper to each other " can you imagine living that close to your neighbors? nooooo thank you! " HN needs to just drop this notion that anyone opposed to density is a caveman. I love the fact that my neighbors can't see me and I can't see them…

> HN needs to just drop this notion that anyone opposed to density is a caveman. I totally agree with that. I've been a city dweller (in Europe) for 45 years or so and hated every second of it. I then lived in suburbia for 5 years and liked it much better. I then just spent one year in the countryside in a very remote area and loved it. I knew my neighbors (but we all had big plots so it's not as if we could see each…

Often however the denser the urban core the easier it is for people to choose to live a short distance away in sparsely populated areas and still have ready access to urban amenities like good hospitals. In other words, those who dislike dense cities the most, should be promoting urban density as it increase options for those who like city living and for those who prefer the countryside.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#542

Post by dev_daftly » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 2:03 AM UTC

ethanbond wrote: post #495

dev_daftly wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with "car centric" zoning or bans on density. It's poor zoning policies that split sections by use case. Walk through a more "residential" are in Vienna and there are still commercial/restaurants throughout the neighborhood. Do the same in Chicago and besides a few strips of the neighborhood you won't find anything besides residential. The problem is zoning in American cities tend to be more segm…

Well it’s not “nothing to do with” cars or density. The only reason American cities attempted (really, converted) into Euclidean zoning is because cars made it seem easy enough to transit zone to zone to live your daily life. Walking 8 miles to the grocery store is clearly untenable, so never would’ve happened without widespread cars.

But the issue also exists in dense areas of Chicago where things aren't far, they are just laid out in a way that doesn't really allow for the same environment as traditional European cities

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#543

Post by ethanbond » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 2:29 AM UTC

dev_daftly wrote: post #542

ethanbond wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it’s not “nothing to do with” cars or density. The only reason American cities attempted (really, converted) into Euclidean zoning is because cars made it seem easy enough to transit zone to zone to live your daily life. Walking 8 miles to the grocery store is clearly untenable, so never would’ve happened without widespread cars.

But the issue also exists in dense areas of Chicago where things aren't far, they are just laid out in a way that doesn't really allow for the same environment as traditional European cities

This type of zoning (Euclidian; zoned by purpose) was very new and only tested in SCOTUS in 1926, suspiciously 18 years after the Model T was introduced. I don’t know if the US pioneered it but it doesn’t seem to have taken hold in Europe til recently too.

I’d suspect very old (pre-car) and historically-preserved parts of Chicago, like Boston, DC, and New York, have a much less Euclidian setup.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#544

Post by jdkee » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 3:36 AM UTC

"The fetishization of the nuclear family, of course, as well as the building and zoning codes that facilitate that fetishization."

Hard to take an author who states something like this as a serious commentator.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#545

Post by fortuna86 » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 4:51 AM UTC

carrolldunham wrote: post #82

I always get pushback for this but I think the idea that adults 'hang out with friends' is a meme from sitcoms. I think people grew up absorbing sitcom premises as representing life. I look at my parents and grandparents they don't have many friends - there's one or two people they see once or twice a year. That's normal. Having 3-5 people who you catch up with regularly through the week and hang out like teenagers,…

[dead]

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#546

Post by anhner » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:51 AM UTC

rolisz wrote: post #375

anhner wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how much infrastructure (schools, kindergardens, medical centers, parks, postal offices, good public transport etc.) do you have around those new developments?

Pretty good infrastructure. Most of the new high rises are in the place of old factories that were built in the middle of the city, so they are in a good position, with access to good schools and everything, including public transportation. If anything, single home units are on the edge of the city and usually don't have any public transportation, and yet people still build a lot there.

I'm not really sure what city in Romania you're talking about, but if it's one of the higher population ones I'll tell you that the "housing in place of factories" is an exception. Most development happens outside of the city centre and has so little thought or care put into it it's almost third country-like.

Zero supporting infrastructure (anything I've mentioned in the previous comment), and the design of the streets sucks as well. You get into a case similar to US suburbia, where if you want to reach an apartment building 10m across from another you need to go around half a mile because no one thought of building pedestrian access from one street to another.

Also most new development isn't "single family homes", it's "10 story cheaply built human concrete farms" because that's the most profitable (and also the mayor is in cahoots with the real estate mafia).

There is a lot more to talk about the corruption of Romanian cities but I'll leave it here.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#547

Post by anhner » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:52 AM UTC

bombolo wrote: post #308

anhner wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how much infrastructure (schools, kindergardens, medical centers, parks, postal offices, good public transport etc.) do you have around those new developments?

I guess none at all. I'm basing my opinion on sweden. Here all the new developments suck. No parks, no shops, so close to each other that they might as well be underground…

You'd be right. It's sad to hear that it happens in Sweden as well.

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#548

Post by zamnos » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 6:59 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #458

throwaway22032 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With restricted access, at controlled hours, in a shared space subject to the whims of others. You're renting them. There are very few tools I can think of at least woodworking wise that I wouldn't "want" to afford myself. Particularly in the context that an urban home costs hundreds of thousands more than a suburban or rural one. Metalworking or something like that, maybe, I wouldn't know.

> With restricted access, at controlled hours, in a shared space subject to the whims of others. You're renting them That isn't renting, that is sharing

G'morning class. Today's lesson on sharing has been replace by a lesson about intellectual property rights. Copyright, trademark, patents, and you!

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#549

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 7:17 AM UTC

dev_daftly wrote: post #418

oriolid wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We must have seen different versions of New York. The one I remember had a few high rises at Manhattan, a lot of lower buildings at the central areas and suburbs of individual houses that extended tens of kilometers to every direction. The difference to for example Hong Kong is huge.

The densest cities in the world have no high-rises.

[deleted]

Re: Why don’t more people live close to friends?

#550

Post by mantas » Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 9:37 AM UTC

Moldoteck wrote: post #452

mantas wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still need people to talk and time slot to meet. Same scheduling issues. I used to live in downtown of my 600k city. Moved back to outskirts of the same city. Driving is the smallest issue to meet. Reading those discussions from afar, it feels like Americans are using urban sprawl as a scapegoat. While it's a problem everywhere else too. Even if you take away urban sprawl and driving, the problem will be there.

Well, idk, in my case it was really the transport. In the past I've lived in same area with my friends and we occasionally went to shop, walk together. In covid, I've moved in the opposite part of the city, with bus it'll take me 30 mins to arrive to them, with car, maybe 15-20, but taxi is expensive and I don't own a car+ the hassle to find parking. As result we met only on special occasions like bday or at some spe…

Did nothing else really changed in your or your friends' life?

I could say the same about my socialising now and a decade ago. But in reality a lot of other things happened - kids, parents getting old, mortgages and housing to take care of, stable jobs with more responsibilities, more resources (both time and money) spent on healthcare... It all adds up.