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Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

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Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#91

Post by themaninthedark »

gerdesj wrote: post #75
drewrv wrote: post #8

I understand that the terms are mostly unambiguous, but I always wonder how these get defined in edge cases. For example ferries, at least where I live, alternate the direction of travel as they go back and forth. There isn't a fixed "bow" or "stern" from which to define port and starboard.

P and S are really defined by the direction of travel or what you decide they are. They are just conventions. The Torpoint ferry in Plymouth (Devon, UK) is on chains, so front and back, bow and stern etc is moot. I think we can simply redefine that sort of ferry as a fish and avoid any snags. That strategy seems to work for astronomy when trying to wrangle planet/dwarf planet/lump of stuff n that. (EDIT: speling)

Oh great, now we will have flying ferrys.... or perhaps swimming planes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgweA8tlh8Q

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#92

Post by hinkley »

callamdelaney wrote: post #78
gkoberger wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but this article explains what each word means. Starboard => Means "steering side of the boat" (b/c the oar was on the right side due to sailors mostly being right handed) Port => The side that faces the port when docked

You can dock a boat anyway you like, or have been instructed to do so by the dockmaster.

But if you have a steering board on the other side of your ship, it's a lot easier to dock facing the other way.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#93

Post by hinkley »

cyberax wrote: post #35
tim_hutton wrote: post #28

The only was I can remember which is port and starboard is by thinking about boarding an airplane. The steps/tunnel are always docked on the 'port' side, just as boats always dock on the port side. The cockpit/bow is always on your left when you board.

My shortcut: "port" and "left" have the same number of letters.

r and s are next to each other, l is closer to p than to anything else.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#94

Post by interroboink »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

Your medical comment reminded me of the fascinating constellation of terminology used to identify locations and orientations in anatomy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomical_terms_of_location

Some of the terms: dorsal/ventral, proximal/distal, anterior/posterior, superior/inferior, oral/aboral, basal/apical

When you're describing something like a microbe, the terms get fairly arbitrary; which is the "head" end of some little blobby thing?

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#95

Post by xiphias2 »

CardenB wrote: post #41
xiphias2 wrote: post #32

They should get rid of these terms, as they are distracting. A big part of the training material for boating license is about learning things that people are not using in practice, which makes less time / mental power to learn what is really important to survive and avoid crash (what's really important).

They are not distracting. There are many intense situations on a boat, and a crew is required to cooperate in order to survive. This means you must have extremely precise wording to quickly explain what needs to be done. This vocabulary is important for this reason, and is able to sharpen focus, rather than distract. It requires a process of learning, and that is intentional.

If you look at statistics, most deaths occur in small boats with a crew who have no idea what these words mean, because they don't have a license.

These are the most common reason of fatalities:

- Not wearing a lifejacket or PFD.

- Falling overboard.

- Capsizing, swamping, sinking, or running aground.

- Being involved in a collision.

- Operating a pleasure craft while under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

The goal of the license should be helping these people, not experienced ones, who anyways have more advanced license, not just the basic ones.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#96

Post by hinkley »

dan-robertson wrote: post #39
drewrv wrote: post #8

I understand that the terms are mostly unambiguous, but I always wonder how these get defined in edge cases. For example ferries, at least where I live, alternate the direction of travel as they go back and forth. There isn't a fixed "bow" or "stern" from which to define port and starboard.

This is a great question imo but I struggled to find anything very good. I found a forum post, https://www.sailnet.com/threads/double-ended-ferries-which-e... and between the trolling it seems that fore/aft and port/starboard switch when the direction reverses, including eg navigation lights (red for port, green for starboard). And they tend to also have a one end and a two end or an A/B end, and those labels don’t c…

Does that mean when you file a maintenance request they have to number everything on the ship since "aft 2nd floor" doesn't narrow things down much?

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#97

Post by Yoofie »

cyberax wrote: post #35
tim_hutton wrote: post #28

The only was I can remember which is port and starboard is by thinking about boarding an airplane. The steps/tunnel are always docked on the 'port' side, just as boats always dock on the port side. The cockpit/bow is always on your left when you board.

My shortcut: "port" and "left" have the same number of letters.

This is the same method I use. I always wondered why they didn't use the cardinal directions (north, east, south, west) or why they didn't use the hours of a clock face to indicate direction. With the clock face, you get even more precision where exactly something happened. Man overboard, 4 o'clock!

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#98

Post by notatoad »

michalskop wrote: post #73

"Left side" and "right side" is unambiguous, because there is one given direction (forward). It is the same as "left bank" and "right bank" of a river (it is always looking downstream). For example, Slavic languages usually just use some sort of "left side" and "right side".

it's unambiguous if you know you're talking about direction relative to the boat, but you don't know that you're talking about direction relative to the boat.

your left hand is still your left hand, even if it's on the starboard side of the boat. you always need some additional disambiguation to specify that you're talking about the boat. i've never sailed a boat with slavic people, but i'm guessing they use a phrase like "boat left" and "boat right", not just "left" or "right".

also, i've never heard anybody describe a riverbank as "left" or "right". riverbanks would be described by their cardinal direction, like the "east bank" or the "south bank"

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#100

Post by abhibeckert »

antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

> At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical school is that left/right always refer to the patient's perspective

In (musical) theatre we do it the other way around. The we call it "stage left" and "stage right" or "SL and SR" since we use abbreviations everywhere in our notes. It's always from the "stage manager's perspective" which is traditionally (but not always) facing the audience.

If the stage manager is facing a different way that doesn't affect the meaning of left/right.

It's from their perspective because they are basically the only person who isn't running around like a chook with their head cut off (because their eyes are glued to the script and video screens - https://youtu.be/DP2QOmN57iU?t=82).

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