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Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

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Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#71

Post by 1123581321 »

xg15 wrote: post #44
1123581321 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those ferries should be switching the direction the crew faces (perhaps in a different structure on the other end of the boat) and turning on the appropriate lights so port and starboard are lit correctly. They should have two sets of colored lights to handle travel in both directions.

Don't they have to swap the lights anyway if the ferry reverses direction? After all, the red/green indicators are primarily for showing which direction the ship is moving in.

If I understand you correctly, yes, exactly.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#72

Post by bch »

lesuorac wrote: post #14
taeric wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if I'm looking at you and speak of your left hand, I am not speaking of the hand to my left. Literally nobody does that. At least not on purpose.

Do you own a car? Commonly when speaking with a mechanic they'll ask questions like Driver's side or Passenger's side to get away from left/right. People very often describe things with just _left_ or just _right_. They don't say things like when I'm sitting in the car the door to my left is hard to open. They just say the left door is broken even when both them and the mechanic are facing the car head on. By having…

Reminds me of this book[0] about (air-cooled) VW maintenance, which goes right into how to tear down and rebuild the engine. Anyway, it can be disorienting, at the back of the car, looking at the engine and knowing what’s front/back, but I recall he wrote something like:

  Now look at the front of the engine (FRONT IS FRONT) and you’ll see…
Also, happens to generally be one of the most beautiful to read and to look-at technical manuals I can think of. Right up there w The C Programming Language.

[0] https://olsensvw.net/shop/engine/idiot-book-how-to-keep-your...

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#73

Post by michalskop »

"Left side" and "right side" is unambiguous, because there is one given direction (forward). It is the same as "left bank" and "right bank" of a river (it is always looking downstream). For example, Slavic languages usually just use some sort of "left side" and "right side".

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#74

Post by stonemetal12 »

Xylakant wrote: post #46
phire wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For bidirectional ferries, I assume they just pick a direction all the way back at design time and stick to it. The direction might not matter, but consistency does.

I’m fairly confident that the “bow” in that case is always the direction of travel in this case and that starboard/port side change. The lighting scheme on ships indicates the starboard side with a green light and the port side with a red light. This allows ships to figure out which way another ship is heading - especially at night. If you can see the red light on the left and green on the right while facing the othe…

Pretty much every boat with onboard motors are capable of reversing thrust. Do they all switch like that when traveling in reverse? (Serious question, not a boat person, never been on a boat that wasn't a ferry )

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#75

Post by gerdesj »

drewrv wrote: post #8

I understand that the terms are mostly unambiguous, but I always wonder how these get defined in edge cases. For example ferries, at least where I live, alternate the direction of travel as they go back and forth. There isn't a fixed "bow" or "stern" from which to define port and starboard.

P and S are really defined by the direction of travel or what you decide they are. They are just conventions.

The Torpoint ferry in Plymouth (Devon, UK) is on chains, so front and back, bow and stern etc is moot. I think we can simply redefine that sort of ferry as a fish and avoid any snags. That strategy seems to work for astronomy when trying to wrangle planet/dwarf planet/lump of stuff n that.

(EDIT: speling)

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#76

Post by taeric »

dceddia wrote: post #70
taeric wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per another thread, this may not be the case for ferries? At least not for ones that don't turn around. (Note that many "people ferry" boats are able to turn around. Larger car ferries are fully symmetric and have no fixed bow/stern. Edit: I found more discussion on this by searching for "double ended" boats. Port/starboard do indeed change depending on the direction of travel from all results I've found.

Hmm interesting. Wonder if they have some non-symmetrical parts, like the location of the engine maybe?

Not the ones I ride. They have engines on each end.

To be fair, they may not be 100% symmetrical. I am not measuring. They are close enough that I can't imagine it would be a good use of the terms. (That is, when the VAST majority of the time the bow is the front of the boat, having a few bigger boats where I have to inspect it to know which is bow and stern would be a bad idea.)

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#77

Post by twawaaay »

drewrv wrote: post #8

I understand that the terms are mostly unambiguous, but I always wonder how these get defined in edge cases. For example ferries, at least where I live, alternate the direction of travel as they go back and forth. There isn't a fixed "bow" or "stern" from which to define port and starboard.

The thing to remember is that those directions are used for an awful number of things that have nothing to do with the ship moving. Like when you name places for storing things or various pieces of equipment. Changing those names would create a lot of mayhem.

When I captain a boat it is more important for me to communicate things unequivocally. I need to be able to specify what I want to happen, precisely. The crew does not really need to concern themselves with the direction the boat is moving or what is the bigger plan. They just get orders to do specific tasks. Only I (or whoever is responsible for the boat at the moment) really need to understand the context of those tasks although ideally the crew would also understand why they are doing things so that they can anticipate further orders or signal when I make a mistake.

Why this is important is because the plan may sometimes change and then my job is to put a new set of orders and I can't really start by explaining what the new changed plan is or getting any consent.

I was never in a situation like that, but if I was captaining a boat that can change directions, I would still keep stable naming that does not change when the boat stops or changes directions.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#78

Post by callamdelaney »

gkoberger wrote: post #34
fishtoaster wrote: post #26

Because you need to differentiate between "my left when facing the boat" and "my left when on the boat facing forward" or really, left from any other perspective. And any time there's a multi-word phrase like that that gets used a lot over many years, it gets shortened.

Of course, but this article explains what each word means. Starboard => Means "steering side of the boat" (b/c the oar was on the right side due to sailors mostly being right handed) Port => The side that faces the port when docked

You can dock a boat anyway you like, or have been instructed to do so by the dockmaster.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#80

Post by uoaei »

stonemetal12 wrote: post #74
Xylakant wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m fairly confident that the “bow” in that case is always the direction of travel in this case and that starboard/port side change. The lighting scheme on ships indicates the starboard side with a green light and the port side with a red light. This allows ships to figure out which way another ship is heading - especially at night. If you can see the red light on the left and green on the right while facing the othe…

Pretty much every boat with onboard motors are capable of reversing thrust. Do they all switch like that when traveling in reverse? (Serious question, not a boat person, never been on a boat that wasn't a ferry )

No, but you've already decided a direction that the bow points when using the word "reverse".
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