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The Windows 11 Trash Party

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Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#341

Post by anthk »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #174
hparadiz wrote: post #108

I've been daily driving Linux since March 2020 however recently purchased a Valve Index and decided to pop Win 10 on a completely empty secondary M.2. The setup kept failing because it just could not handle the fact that the primary M.2 had a Linux boot loader on it. It just refused to install. My work around was to setup a QEMU VM inside Linux where I provided the VM with the secondary M.2 as the main install drive.…

I've been daily driving Linux for maybe around 5 years, and I only ever need to be boot into Windows when I need to use an android custom ROM tool. This is generally a flurry of activity over a day or few, and then nothing for months. I've just (re)obtained a desktop PC with a GPU, which I'm using as a Linux gaming prototype box with ubuntu 20.04 LTS running Steam, and I'm reliving some youth in playing through Deus…

Install GMDX on top of Deus Ex.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#342

Post by pjmlp »

mshockwave wrote: post #159
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows really should just rebase on to Linux No, it should not. The NT kernel architecture is drastically superior to the Linux monorepo.

Mind to elaborate a little more?

Drivers ABI, being micro-kernel based, even if everything is kind of bundled together, subsystems talk over in-kernel RPC (LPC), nowadays drivers and critical kernel subsystems are sandboxed on their micro-vms, hyper-v is a type 1 hypervisor (Windows runs on top of it when enabled, is just another guest), many kernel subsystems have long adopted C++ (hence VC++ /kernel since Vista, and Windows Implementation Library, a set of C++ templates for kernel, driver and userspace resource management), async IO since Windows NT early days, COM as OOP ABI (even if tooling is somehow clunky), subsystems just like mainframe OSes,....

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#343

Post by elygre »

dacryn wrote: post #253
dustedcodes wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not that different. Look at Azure and tell me with a straight face that it’s not the biggest clusterfuck of all time. Look at it. Azure is the single biggest reason why .NET developers have high blood pressure around the world. Azure is so bad people actively filter out jobs where the company uses Azure. The only other software which triggers this much aversion in people is MS Teams.

it's insane how good Microsoft sales people are, if they manage to make Azure sell this well when GCP and AWS are objectively better at basically everything, including cost considerations.

Either that, or your statement that “google cloud and AWS are objectively better at basically everything” is perhaps not shared by everyone.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#344

Post by tmountain »

nstart wrote: post #31

Windows is my daily driver. I actually like the OS but Microsoft would do well to listen to these concerns being raised consistently. They need to ask some deep questions of themselves of what they want Windows to be. This reminds me of the days where Ballmers goal seemed to be to lock everyone into Windows and MS products when the real upside turned out to be “make MS products fully available where people already ar…

Who’s going to want to use it if they opt for advertising platform?

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#345

Post by bdavbdav »

Dalewyn wrote: post #326
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question - what do you like about Windows? I used windows from 3.1, NT, 95, 2000 until XP, at which point I switched to Linux for my main OS. Obviously I used all the later versions of Windows too for work, but each version seemed worse and less usable (7 was ok I guess).

For all its faults, Windows is the only operating system that manages to balance practicality, versatility, customizability, and reliability all in one single operating system. Linux? The fucking thing breaks down if you so much as look at it wrong. No reliability, zilch, nada, /dev/null. I don't trust Linux with anything mission critical, unless I'm paying someone monies to make sure my time isn't wasted (eg: Red Ha…

I'm surprised at that on the reliability front - things are a fuss to get going, but if you're on a LTS version of whatever-distro, its usually pretty rock-solid (hence why its powering everything you look at...)

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#346

Post by AviationAtom »

He starts out speaking of the computer being for his child and the inappropriateness of default content shown for a child.

I think it's worthy of mentioning Microsoft Family Safety. It's pretty useful after you create a minor Microsoft Account for your child through it. My only gripe was the Microsoft Edge new tab page, which still shows some content inappropriate for a child, with no way to disable it through the UI. The Microsoft Support sanctioned way to disable it was by adding ntp.msn.com to the Windows hosts file.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#347

Post by bdavbdav »

hparadiz wrote: post #108

I've been daily driving Linux since March 2020 however recently purchased a Valve Index and decided to pop Win 10 on a completely empty secondary M.2. The setup kept failing because it just could not handle the fact that the primary M.2 had a Linux boot loader on it. It just refused to install. My work around was to setup a QEMU VM inside Linux where I provided the VM with the secondary M.2 as the main install drive.…

The setup tools, and boot management are inexcusable.

BCD (and its associated tools) are a steaming mess when anything goes wrong. The learning curve for GRUB et al. is the shortest curve ever - what its doing is really transparent. Fixing anything in the windows recovery environment is a total nightmare. Linux, worst case you use something like ReFind and can happily boot anything. Windows goes wrong, you're at the behest of of the practically useless "Startup Repair", which gives little or no practical output.

Don't get me onto the drive selection on setup too... Why can't they indicate which drive is which model / serial number? Do I have to guess from the exact size? Also why do I need to turn other drives off in UEFI to ensure they're not touched.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#348

Post by NayamAmarshe »

ricardobayes wrote: post #322
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #257

I'm sometimes still surprised that some people can find reasons to defend even that. Windows is horrible, it started to derail ever since Windows 8 came into the picture. This is an OS that does not respect its user. This is an OS that normalizes hostile software design, and makes it acceptable. This is an OS that spits in its users' faces and the users can do nothing about it. It's partly the user's fault as well. I…

How is this any different than the pre-installed Amazon app on Ubuntu?

What pre-installed Amazon app? That's old news. Ubuntu doesn't include anything like that.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#349

Post by MikusR »

hooby wrote: post #233
charles_f wrote: post #100

There's been a long observed tradition that every other version of Windows is trash. 3.1, 98, XP, 7, 10 were good^, 95, ME, Vista, 8 and now 11 are trash. This one is a bit of a fun one because the bits described here are almost sabotage level bad. You can deactivate that pretty easily so it's not a big deal; there's some other clunky ui interface notably in settings where you can still find 4 or 5 different generati…

> There's been a long observed tradition that every other version of Windows is trash. 3.1, 98, XP, 7, 10 were good^, 95, ME, Vista, 8 and now 11 are trash. What about Windows 2000?

Doesn't fit the narrative so is omitted.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#350

Post by hyperman1 »

hardware2win wrote: post #251
hyperman1 wrote: post #239

In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default theme, DRM. There were complaints, but users took it because where else to go? And to be honest, XP was still an upgrade coming from 98 and 2000 was not available for end users. Vista was an universally loathed disaster, but users took it because where else to go? Windows 7 was better, but still an UI downgrade.…

>Vista was an universally loathed disaster, but users took it because where else to go? Who? "Nobody" used Vista except eg schools. Same with 8 Maybe for me it feels diffetent maybe thats country difference, but the windows migration felt like: xp 7 10 ... 12? People were using xp and 7 as long as they could >In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default the…

>>In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default theme

>No idea what you are talking about, what do you mean?

It turns out to be quite hard to find links about this bygone era, even if everyone screamed bloody murder at the time. I found these:

Third party themes, a feature loved by win98 users, are forbidden by microsoft in XP.

https://www.theregister.com/2001/02/16/compatibility_woes_de...

The Luna theme was called fisher price, not plastic, in the complaints - Got confused by KDE I guess. I presume it tried to make computers more playfull and less work. But people felt like Microsoft treated them like toddlers. Not everybody realized it could be disabled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_visual_styles

DRM. Can't even find anything relevant anymore. XP was the first MS consumer OS to implement and require it. There was also the required activation, and the digital signing of system components.

All of these represent a deep change of how Microsoft viewed their customers. Before, the user was allowed to do with his computer what he or she wanted, even if the machine got wrecked in the process. Users were assumed to be responsible agents, and protection against malware or legal usage was their responsibilty.

Starting with XP, Microsoft decided it knew better than the user, and needed to limit user activities with cryptographic measures. The PC should protect microsoft, content owners and end users against the incompetency or malice of the owner, even against their wishes. There were sometimes good reasons, e.g. theming allowed injection of malware into anything. But the final decision of what was allowed or not was from now on made by microsoft, not the owner.

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