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Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress

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Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress

#51

Post by wnkrshm »

Towaway69 wrote: post #34
abss wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the real issues emerge from capitalist system rules and incentives and the current tech industry is just shaped and emerged as a result?

I've switched to thinking consumerism is more of a problem than capitalism. Capitalism is just the producer, if what capitalism produced isn't consumered, certain things won't be produced. Additionally consumerism is something that we all can influence with our credit cards. Capitalism is largely controlled by large nameless corporations.

Problem is: The larger the wallet, the larger the vote.

Also, consumers get manipulated to buy into black boxes all the time. Nobody wants to know how their sausage is made but everyone would buy one. A company that is perfectly transparent about their supply chain would fail.

Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress

#52

Post by Kbelicius »

Towaway69 wrote: post #34
abss wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the real issues emerge from capitalist system rules and incentives and the current tech industry is just shaped and emerged as a result?

I've switched to thinking consumerism is more of a problem than capitalism. Capitalism is just the producer, if what capitalism produced isn't consumered, certain things won't be produced. Additionally consumerism is something that we all can influence with our credit cards. Capitalism is largely controlled by large nameless corporations.

> Capitalism is just the producer

I'm having difficulty parsing this part. What does this mean?

Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress

#53

Post by SanderNL »

safety1st wrote: post #7

His philosophy doesn't resonate with me. Broadly speaking, since the industrial revolution scientific and technological progress has been about increasing productivity and available energy. This has had profoundly positive effects on our lives but in a developed country it's not obvious that becoming another order of magnitude more productive will automatically lead to people having even better lives. In the advanced…

We don’t become more productive because we are striving towards it like some shared goal, we do it because if we don’t, we lose (our jobs, among other things).

There is no element of choice. There is no stopping this.

Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress

#54

Post by Dalewyn »

h0l0cube wrote: post #14
donatj wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This list of problems really just sounds a lot like the goals of humanity at large for the last couple hundred thousand years. To have plenty, more than your neighbors, and enough that you don’t need to deal with other people (what hell is, to wit).

> and enough that you don’t need to deal with other people (what hell is, to wit) This is actually a new phenomenon. I'm not sure if it's just because I'm older, but I've literally grown to see this shift in mindset. There was a time when it was common to invite neighbors over for dinner, now more often than not, it seems like people want to have bigger fences and less interaction with their community. Meanwhile, all…

A lot of people, myself included, get tired of dealing with people as we get older.

We have to deal with people for the majority of our lives, especially during our schooling and working years. Once we've accumulated enough to retire into the countryside with no need to give a fuck to anyone it becomes a very appealing change of scenery.

Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress

#55

Post by Dalewyn »

mandmandam wrote: post #42
qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #39

The problem is not with progress. The problem is with denial of a dilema. Human baseline nature is unable to handle much more progress. Meaning, we are already very close to the killer drone dilema, and as even small crisis like the Covid virus have shown, once we come under pressure we fall apart. We can pretend all we want in good times, that we are strong and cohesive and we have good captains steering the ship. B…

I agree that the problem isn't progress, and that there are problems being denied. I don't think the root of the problem is most people's human nature though. Culture has been cynically and scientifically hacked by megamedia conglomerates, blasting brains with full volume fear porn 24h a day for decades over every outlet. This is great for media, great for politicians, great for advertisers like insurance companies t…

Tune out of TV/radio news and stop reading newspapers (be it online or paper form), life becomes several orders of magnitudes more enjoyable.

Journalism ("full volume fear porn") isn't worth giving any of your precious time and energy to.

Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress

#56

Post by lnsru »

qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #39

The problem is not with progress. The problem is with denial of a dilema. Human baseline nature is unable to handle much more progress. Meaning, we are already very close to the killer drone dilema, and as even small crisis like the Covid virus have shown, once we come under pressure we fall apart. We can pretend all we want in good times, that we are strong and cohesive and we have good captains steering the ship. B…

I would say, our modern controlled democracy can’t solve any problem. Why “controlled”? Because only professional conmen backed by some shady organizations can enter the voting list with real election change. I know tons really smart and good hearted people. I can guarantee, their work would be very beneficial for whole society. And yet no one of them gets elected somewhere. Democracy being complete scam is also being promoted as a single true government form. It’s actually worse than communism. There is same ruling class, same corruption and also nobody is responsive for anything. Best case something is being planned until next election and NO big project is being touched. That’s how one ends building 40 years 6 mile long train track. Democracy must be replaced with something working. Maybe with real direct democracy where everybody could vote using some app.

Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress

#57

Post by emptyfile »

lnsru wrote: post #56
qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #39

The problem is not with progress. The problem is with denial of a dilema. Human baseline nature is unable to handle much more progress. Meaning, we are already very close to the killer drone dilema, and as even small crisis like the Covid virus have shown, once we come under pressure we fall apart. We can pretend all we want in good times, that we are strong and cohesive and we have good captains steering the ship. B…

I would say, our modern controlled democracy can’t solve any problem. Why “controlled”? Because only professional conmen backed by some shady organizations can enter the voting list with real election change. I know tons really smart and good hearted people. I can guarantee, their work would be very beneficial for whole society. And yet no one of them gets elected somewhere. Democracy being complete scam is also bein…

[dead]

Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress

#58

Post by taopai »

anovikov wrote: post #24
boxed wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of purpose is the core thing I think. If you have that, then isolation solves itself, and obesity might very well solve itself too. Lack of purpose is also the consequence of not being able to even think of a brighter future. Not seeing what humanity COULD be and working towards it.

Lack of purpose is inevitable and unfixable. In the world where success is infinitely scalable as we are living in the information age, most people are doomed to uselessness no matter what. Trick is how to help them get over it. Obesity is a medical problem and will be solved by rather trivial medical means very soon, at least on that front, future is bright.

I like spending time with my friends and family. This makes my life purposeful. I love creating experiences for them. Studying and working are secondary. I like messing with data, love linux, and have a blast with emacs and all that... But when I am near death I only think about my loved ones.

Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress

#59

Post by Towaway69 »

Kbelicius wrote: post #52
Towaway69 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've switched to thinking consumerism is more of a problem than capitalism. Capitalism is just the producer, if what capitalism produced isn't consumered, certain things won't be produced. Additionally consumerism is something that we all can influence with our credit cards. Capitalism is largely controlled by large nameless corporations.

> Capitalism is just the producer I'm having difficulty parsing this part. What does this mean?

For me there are two parts at play: consumerism and capitalism, without one, neither the other.

If consumers don't purchase the products produced by the capitalist factories then the system would come to a standstill.

(I am thinking of the companies running/ordering from the factories not necessarily the factories themselves, i.e. Chinese factory.)

This means that as a consumer, I can influence the system by not purchasing certain products. The larger consumer group, the larger the change.

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