The main problem with humanity is the lack of wisdom, not the lack of progress. Discovering something is nice, but if you are not able to handle it, it is of no use. When antibiotics were discovered, it made a great improvement on health of people. But instead of using it in a wise way, it was grossly overused, resulting in widespread resistance, slowly undoing all it positive effects. And that is how it basically has gone with every discovery.
Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress
41–50 of 109 posts
Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress
#42The problem is not with progress. The problem is with denial of a dilema. Human baseline nature is unable to handle much more progress. Meaning, we are already very close to the killer drone dilema, and as even small crisis like the Covid virus have shown, once we come under pressure we fall apart. We can pretend all we want in good times, that we are strong and cohesive and we have good captains steering the ship. B…
I agree that the problem isn't progress, and that there are problems being denied. I don't think the root of the problem is most people's human nature though.
Culture has been cynically and scientifically hacked by megamedia conglomerates, blasting brains with full volume fear porn 24h a day for decades over every outlet. This is great for media, great for politicians, great for advertisers like insurance companies to tell us how kind they are, and for energy companies to explain why they're great for the environment.
It's phenomenally bad for us, as a species and as a biosphere. Don't confuse natural human reactions to relentless state-of-the-art propaganda with actual baseline human nature.
Energy companies, politicians, and the media didn't just lie to us about the reality of climate change - they actively made things worse, sowing doubt just like the tobacco companies did.
It's not that our nature needs a patch! We need to stop letting greedy and self interested psychopaths use media, education, politics, regulation, finance, etc. to get around our very natural human reactions to these issues.
Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress
#43Wow! I have been surprised two times, once when listening to the podcast:
Someone who seems to grasp some global understanding not given to most and articulate them (the central role that progress plays in our society, the progress having peaked, the need to study and understand the notion of progress) being so short-sighted and individualistic that he fails to even take into account the nature of progress itself. He wants and believes in a brighter future (I do to) but what he is advocating for leads us to catastrophy, I am all for progress, but I think we really need progress on moral standing, a progress in mindset etc... Basically a progress of ideas and spirituality, and NOT more technical/technological progress!
My second surprise was to see this heavily tech-oriented community not bite into this bait and remain very critical without falling into cynicism, this makes me hopeful that something can be done about this. A lot has been said to highlight the shortsightedness of the guest speaker's argument and even more could be said, but I want to ask something else, what are we doing about this? What can we do as techies/engineers to address this madness?
Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress
#44The main problem with humanity is the lack of wisdom, not the lack of progress. Discovering something is nice, but if you are not able to handle it, it is of no use. When antibiotics were discovered, it made a great improvement on health of people. But instead of using it in a wise way, it was grossly overused, resulting in widespread resistance, slowly undoing all it positive effects. And that is how it basically ha…
Antibiotics has worked well, since its invention and continues to work very well to this day.
Sure, resistance to antibiotics is an occasional problem. But it's also a problem that doesn't seem to grow much worse over time.
Problem is, when people are thinking in the abstract they are bad at figuring what is significant and how significant it is. Living in the age before antibiotics was a completely different world, with a lot more risk. Living today with a moderate and constant amount of antibiotics resistance is nothing like that at all. And if resistance becomes too severe a problem, new antibiotics will be invented quickly as the general principle has been figured out.
Problem is that people want to or are driven to obsess over all these, to a vast degree, imaginary dangers, instead of focusing on how far they've come and how far they could yet go and how wonderful that would be.
Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you compare, for example, the 1960s view of future with the current - quite a difference. A lot now is about costs to bear and then eventually it might get better. Are there business opportunities in the problems - for sure, but that isn't quite the same as a general bright outlook on the future.
Our future was robbed between the 1960s and now. Crazy great things have happened - usually thanks to the best of us. But the worst of us have been pulling the same mega-destructive stunts for decades, and they keep getting away with it. There are good reasons to have optimism, but like... We were violently mugged, and are bleeding. We need to do something about all that before worrying that our outlook isn't rosy en…
Nothing was robbed or destroyed - not sure why you adopt that defeatist attitude. The future could probably be all yours.
Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lack of purpose is inevitable and unfixable. In the world where success is infinitely scalable as we are living in the information age, most people are doomed to uselessness no matter what. Trick is how to help them get over it. Obesity is a medical problem and will be solved by rather trivial medical means very soon, at least on that front, future is bright.
Woah that's a contrarian take on obesity. Can you elaborate?
GLP-1 receptor agonists seem to be the one-and-for-all solution for obesity and they seem to work for nearly every person regardless of existing health conditions, diabetes, etc (they are primarily diabetes drugs) with under 3% quit rate from side effects. Only problem is production volumes ramp-up but that will solve itself over time just like with covid vaccines, because drugs are new, 2021-2022. Smart asses willing to pay ~$1500+ per month already all got access to them.
In 3-4 years, at least in developed countries, only people who will still be fat are those with rare and unusual health issues, rare people with extreme side effects to these drugs, and those who don't care. In another few years, health insurance will probably be unaccessible to those who are overweight and don't use these drugs so it will not even be a choice.
Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress
#47The problem is not with progress. The problem is with denial of a dilema. Human baseline nature is unable to handle much more progress. Meaning, we are already very close to the killer drone dilema, and as even small crisis like the Covid virus have shown, once we come under pressure we fall apart. We can pretend all we want in good times, that we are strong and cohesive and we have good captains steering the ship. B…
I agree that the problem isn't progress, and that there are problems being denied. I don't think the root of the problem is most people's human nature though. Culture has been cynically and scientifically hacked by megamedia conglomerates, blasting brains with full volume fear porn 24h a day for decades over every outlet. This is great for media, great for politicians, great for advertisers like insurance companies t…
Both of you basically said the same thing to me, our seeking of unbriddled progress is like a moth to a flame, we think it's our guide but it'll just burn us if we don't think properly/rationally about it.
Our single most important skill as humans is our ability to adapt, hence the plasticity in our mindstate, culture, introspection etc... The Elites understand that very well and uses that to fulfill whatever sick fantasies they harbor.
qikInNdOutReply said we need a patch, you appeal to common sense, I like to speak about some kind of "transcendence". In the end, we all speak about the same thing: With this much progress, technical prowess, power etc.. comes a great deal of problem and responsibility we are unable to handle, we need to balance this with a "progress" in our mindset and culture to get some sort of control over our tools, society, destiny or whatever we deem important to continue living decently.
Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress
#481870 to 1920 is compared to the last 50 years yet internal combustion, planes, electricity, vaccines, fertilizers, radio, telephone etc. hadn't really achieved much by 1920, not compared with what they grew into.
Model T Ford's are remembered as the car that kicked off the century of the car, not its peak.
Carbon fibre, solar power or one of a million other technologies that have started to catch on in the last few decades could revolutionise the world. It's a bit silly trying to predict them in advance. What did the future look like in 1920? Zeppelin's?
Though if I was going to predict one, solar power (renewables more generally) seems a very effective counter to all his complaints. Something that was pushed forward by centralised beaurocracy and government regulation at every turn and is providing the cheapest, most abundant energy in history.
Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress
#49The problem is not with progress. The problem is with denial of a dilema. Human baseline nature is unable to handle much more progress. Meaning, we are already very close to the killer drone dilema, and as even small crisis like the Covid virus have shown, once we come under pressure we fall apart. We can pretend all we want in good times, that we are strong and cohesive and we have good captains steering the ship. B…
I agree that the problem isn't progress, and that there are problems being denied. I don't think the root of the problem is most people's human nature though. Culture has been cynically and scientifically hacked by megamedia conglomerates, blasting brains with full volume fear porn 24h a day for decades over every outlet. This is great for media, great for politicians, great for advertisers like insurance companies t…
This sounds like a compelling argument to me.
So what could actually be done about the fear porn? To what extent are people aware of the effects of fear-mongering / click-bait media able to make other choices if offered alternatives? Because surely people will actually feel better if they do.
Would neutral-to-hopeful media stories be able to reach enough people? If we let go of the goal of maximizing profits, would it be possible to make such an effort self-sustaining? Would it perhaps require volunteers who want to make a positive impact?
Finally, what is needed to start doing this and reaching people with it, right now?
Re: Make the future bright again: On building a new philosophy of progress
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lack of purpose is inevitable and unfixable. In the world where success is infinitely scalable as we are living in the information age, most people are doomed to uselessness no matter what. Trick is how to help them get over it. Obesity is a medical problem and will be solved by rather trivial medical means very soon, at least on that front, future is bright.
>most people are doomed to uselessness no matter what Well, no mater how smart computers get, mothers will be generally useful to their children. So at least one counter example.
That's right and this is why rates of depression, suicide and stuff, is way lower among women than men. Still it leaves an impression of a Ponzi scheme of a sort?